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Old 07-05-2015, 10:25 AM
  #81  
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Gloop,
I don't go as deep as TP, but will say this; DAL 8 and DAL 7 are stinking' full almost every day. It is a non rev nightmare. In the last three years I have only been able to get on DAL less than a half dozen times with an S3B. The price of tickets on EK and DAL are very similar. And frankly when I have gotten on DAL it looks like a troop carrier with all of the contractors coming and going. They're not on vacation looking for cheap fares. So why has DL cut back their service to DXB?

So why should any "foreign" airline be restricted to the US with an Open Sky agreement, if none of the Legacies want to service a market? Maybe I'm looking at this from a simplistic view, but as TP was alluding to, when DPA raised its head, and ALPA was charged with non representing the TWA pilots and possibly assessing the membership.....we had "ads" on the front, back, inside and backside inside covers of AIRLINE PILOT demonizing a new boogie man. And who was the President of ALPA, and what is he doing now? Good job there Moak. Over 25 years of reading that rag and never saw anything about state supported airlines prior to DPA (re., dues) and the possibility of a major assessment from the TWA judgement.

Just saying'
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Old 07-05-2015, 12:53 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Skyone View Post
Gloop,
I don't go as deep as TP, but will say this; DAL 8 and DAL 7 are stinking' full almost every day. It is a non rev nightmare. In the last three years I have only been able to get on DAL less than a half dozen times with an S3B. The price of tickets on EK and DAL are very similar. And frankly when I have gotten on DAL it looks like a troop carrier with all of the contractors coming and going. They're not on vacation looking for cheap fares. So why has DL cut back their service to DXB?

So why should any "foreign" airline be restricted to the US with an Open Sky agreement, if none of the Legacies want to service a market? Maybe I'm looking at this from a simplistic view, but as TP was alluding to, when DPA raised its head, and ALPA was charged with non representing the TWA pilots and possibly assessing the membership.....we had "ads" on the front, back, inside and backside inside covers of AIRLINE PILOT demonizing a new boogie man. And who was the President of ALPA, and what is he doing now? Good job there Moak. Over 25 years of reading that rag and never saw anything about state supported airlines prior to DPA (re., dues) and the possibility of a major assessment from the TWA judgement.

Just saying'
If there's ever been a "boogie man" its the fake nonsense that TWA was screwed by ALPA. TWA was screwed by TWA, Bankruptcy and timing. They want to employ massive revisionist history about how great things would have been had they just slid on over to AA with full relative and all that. Oh yeah, the big lawsuit. The one they settled for pennies on the dollar and is now over. I suppose the settlement they agreed to was an ALPA conspiracy too?

And I hope you don't think the ME3 issue right now is because ALPA/A4A are trembling in their boots about the DPA that hasn't been able to get 50% cards ever, and hasn't been quieter than they have been in the last couple years.

As for DXB, if it made sense to add flights then DL/UA/AA would. I'm sure we'll most likely see an additional flight or two by US3 in the coming years. But there is no reason for the US to stay in an agreement (agreements are consensual and on an ongoing basis) that is so severely skewed in their favor. We get 2 777's a day, you get dozens and dozens (eventually) of 777/380s a day. But more than that is the clear and present issue of those meglomaniacs wanting to overfly every international market to and from the US and EU from everywhere else.

They are violating their agreements now with the massive subsidies, and they want massive poaching far and beyond anything that was ever agreed to with their plans to replace all US international lift with direct service. Those poachers want to fly US-LHR, CDG, FRA, everywhere in EU, China, Japan, Africa. This isn't about military contractors (our massive military industrial welfare to their little "nation" by the way) but about an obvious plan to replace American workers with foreign non union workers eventually on every international (and even some domestic if they really get their way) routes.

No thanks. They got caught and are now on the defensive, despite meglomaniac TC's "sledgehammer" response. Maybe the next time his little empire faces a regional "spring" we can bring the sledgehammer down by not providing their defense at our expense.

This is about way more than loads to and from just DXB.
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Old 07-05-2015, 04:14 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
If there's ever been a "boogie man" its the fake nonsense that TWA was screwed by ALPA. TWA was screwed by TWA, Bankruptcy and timing. They want to employ massive revisionist history about how great things would have been had they just slid on over to AA with full relative and all that. Oh yeah, the big lawsuit. The one they settled for pennies on the dollar and is now over. I suppose the settlement they agreed to was an ALPA conspiracy too?

And I hope you don't think the ME3 issue right now is because ALPA/A4A are trembling in their boots about the DPA that hasn't been able to get 50% cards ever, and hasn't been quieter than they have been in the last couple years.

As for DXB, if it made sense to add flights then DL/UA/AA would. I'm sure we'll most likely see an additional flight or two by US3 in the coming years. But there is no reason for the US to stay in an agreement (agreements are consensual and on an ongoing basis) that is so severely skewed in their favor. We get 2 777's a day, you get dozens and dozens (eventually) of 777/380s a day. But more than that is the clear and present issue of those meglomaniacs wanting to overfly every international market to and from the US and EU from everywhere else.

They are violating their agreements now with the massive subsidies, and they want massive poaching far and beyond anything that was ever agreed to with their plans to replace all US international lift with direct service. Those poachers want to fly US-LHR, CDG, FRA, everywhere in EU, China, Japan, Africa. This isn't about military contractors (our massive military industrial welfare to their little "nation" by the way) but about an obvious plan to replace American workers with foreign non union workers eventually on every international (and even some domestic if they really get their way) routes.

No thanks. They got caught and are now on the defensive, despite meglomaniac TC's "sledgehammer" response. Maybe the next time his little empire faces a regional "spring" we can bring the sledgehammer down by not providing their defense at our expense.

This is about way more than loads to and from just DXB.

Please educate yourself just a little:


Resources | About Emirates | Emirates United States

While I'm certain you'll refuse stating the document is subjective, it contains a lot of factual graphs and statistics. Everyone who is interested in this topic should read it to see how comically incompetent U.S. airline management has been in regards to capturing international growth.


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Old 07-05-2015, 08:34 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot View Post
Please educate yourself just a little:


Resources | About Emirates | Emirates United States

While I'm certain you'll refuse stating the document is subjective, it contains a lot of factual graphs and statistics. Everyone who is interested in this topic should read it to see how comically incompetent U.S. airline management has been in regards to capturing international growth.


Typhoonpilot
US cities to EU cities direct isn't "international growth". They are hell bent on taking our industry down and transferring it to them. This isn't just about taking people from China to India and Africa.
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Old 07-05-2015, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
US cities to EU cities direct isn't "international growth". They are hell bent on taking our industry down and transferring it to them. This isn't just about taking people from China to India and Africa.
What are you saying? They are going to put Delta out of business and operate LGA to DTW on 777s?
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Old 07-05-2015, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
What are you saying? They are going to put Delta out of business and operate LGA to DTW on 777s?
You're blurring the point trying to talk about short hop domestic cabotage. But I do think they would love that. Not 1 hour flight stuff (at least for a while…they'd be more than content using locals for that rubbish for a while). But they would love to do NYC/BOS/ATL/DC-LA/SF/SEA, etc. Even that is deep into the next phase of their egotistical manifest destiny.

First they want to put the thin end of the wedge into a couple markets (like MXP-JFK) and then hammer away route by route.

But hey in exchange we can fly to DXB! Yay!

Do you really value your "area code" number so much that you'd endorse something like that just to get the seniority advancement from a few code share scraps?
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Old 07-05-2015, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
You're blurring the point trying to talk about short hop domestic cabotage. But I do think they would love that. Not 1 hour flight stuff (at least for a while…they'd be more than content using locals for that rubbish for a while). But they would love to do NYC/BOS/ATL/DC-LA/SF/SEA, etc. Even that is deep into the next phase of their egotistical manifest destiny.

First they want to put the thin end of the wedge into a couple markets (like MXP-JFK) and then hammer away route by route.

But hey in exchange we can fly to DXB! Yay!

Do you really value your "area code" number so much that you'd endorse something like that just to get the seniority advancement from a few code share scraps?
I have zero say in code shares and how management runs airlines. I really don't see them doing the inter-US routes you are stating. Seems like fear mongering. And yes they've done JFK-MXP and I choose this confirmed ticket over Delta, American, or United because EK's service is better and the ticket prices were pretty much equal. Emirates tried JFK-Hamburg for a while and it didn't work out and it was cancelled. I still don't see this to be as big a threat as some are making it out to be.
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Old 07-05-2015, 09:14 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
Maybe the next time his little empire faces a regional "spring" we can bring the sledgehammer down by not providing their defense at our expense.
There was not even a hint of a "spring" in the UAE.
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Old 07-05-2015, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
I have zero say in code shares and how management runs airlines. I really don't see them doing the inter-US routes you are stating. Seems like fear mongering. And yes they've done JFK-MXP and I choose this confirmed ticket over Delta, American, or United because EK's service is better and the ticket prices were pretty much equal. Emirates tried JFK-Hamburg for a while and it didn't work out and it was cancelled. I still don't see this to be as big a threat as some are making it out to be.
Well no matter what you think, virgin is a union shop now and you need to take a proactive approach to scope whether it be current or future. Every scope give had always been perceived as a non threat and then it was exploited to the fullest extent. The open skies agreement is essentially a scope clause and it's being violated. If you don't have scope you have nothing.
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Old 07-06-2015, 04:21 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
...And yes they've done JFK-MXP and I choose this confirmed ticket over Delta, American, or United because EK's service is better and the ticket prices were pretty much equal...
And why is that? The ME is a region that has spurned science, technology, human rights, progressive thinking, and innovation for about 1500 years. Why all of a sudden have they figured out how to run an airline better than anybody else in the world? Oh yeah that's right they haven't -- they cheat with massive subsidies. Fine, they can cheat all they want but we don't have to let them participate in open skies when they do.

Originally Posted by PILOTGUY View Post
There was not even a hint of a "spring" in the UAE.
The UAE has extremely generous social welfare programs for native Emirates, they are well bribed and there was no need for a spring since they happily live in benevolent bondage. In addition, they put the NSA to shame when it comes to controlling their population. While I don't suggest they have the same massive technical ability to spy on the entire world like my Uncle Sam, they are laser focused on their own country and take drastic actions against their sphere of influence to nip any dissent in the bud. The guy in the linked story at the bottom of my post spent 7 months in jail for a YouTube video that only mildly pokes fun at UAE gangsta wannabes. 7 months for a tiny joke that didn't even criticize the leadership. The only reason we even know about it is because he was an American. The UAE is a religious police state with very tight controls, there will be no spring here for a VERY long time.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1568827
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