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DOJ Investigates Airline Collusion

Old 07-01-2015, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tomgoodman View Post
Airlines have engaged in self-destructive price wars and overcapacity for so long that this buffoonery is now regarded as normal behavior. Consequently, any sudden outbreak of rational business practices raise suspicions of conspiracy.
Exactly, everyone knows the purpose of an airline is to lose money.
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Old 07-01-2015, 09:17 PM
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Alright, who didn't pay off someone at the DOJ? They're for sale. So who let us down?


Probably us. We're kind of cheap.
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Old 07-03-2015, 06:13 AM
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This administration goes after any private company or industry that has the audacity to actually turn a profit. Extortion, oops I mean fines, will be paid and then the government will move on to the next victim.
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by FXDX View Post
This administration goes after any private company or industry that has the audacity to actually turn a profit. Extortion, oops I mean fines, will be paid and then the government will move on to the next victim.
Its OK to make a profit, as long as you bow down to the almighty government and get in bed with them via lobbying and other areas of support. Look at GE, Goldman Sachs, Apple and others.

We're all equal, but some are more equal than others.
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Old 07-04-2015, 09:19 AM
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How much ignorance can there be here?

As previously said, this is an investigation into collusion as a reaction to consumer complaints which are quite valid under the current circumstances. Either the DOJ is blowing smoke to appease the consumer complaints in which case this will fade away soon or they have some real evidence and likely will push the issue.

Increasing capacity leads to more pilot demand which bleeds the regiona...um, excuse me... B-scale pilot groups which drives up average labor costs for the airlines which depend on super cheap labor to fly half their flights. This would be good for pilots as a whole but bad for United, Delta and American.

I think that has got to have something to do with it since it's the one common denominator all the big three airlines face but which Southwest Airlines doesn't have a real problem with....yet.
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Old 07-04-2015, 11:16 AM
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Where was the DOJ investigation of BP when Oil was at $140bbl and the Majors were all going bankrupt?

Now that the airlines have gone bankrupt, merged and restructured, and are FINALLY learning how to make money through capacity discipline, now, finally, after 9-11 and the lost decade, NOW it's collusion!

Yeah, right.
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Old 07-04-2015, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
Where was the DOJ investigation of BP when Oil was at $140bbl and the Majors were all going bankrupt?.
The DOJ has hit many of the major oil companies and suppliers with FCPA and other fines. BP just got handed the largest penalty ever for the Gulf spill. I wouldn't say the government has turned a blind eye to their illegal practices where they have existed.
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Old 07-04-2015, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
Where was the DOJ investigation of BP when Oil was at $140bbl and the Majors were all going bankrupt?

Now that the airlines have gone bankrupt, merged and restructured, and are FINALLY learning how to make money through capacity discipline, now, finally, after 9-11 and the lost decade, NOW it's collusion!

Yeah, right.
I don't know if the majors have learned how to make money through capacity discipline. How much would DAL make this year if they had not flushed your pension? Very little, I would speculate (but am honestly asking). So, in other words, if all the majors had kept their financial obligations, they would either not be profitable or only slightly profitable with today's low oil prices. That may be why they are losing capacity discipline again, because they feel they now "know how to make money" ... And yet are starting to prove they don't.
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Old 07-04-2015, 04:34 PM
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[QUOTE=NineGturn;1922183]How much ignorance can there be here?

As previously said, this is an investigation into collusion as a reaction to consumer complaints which are quite valid under the current circumstances.[QUOTE]

Except the complaints are not valid. It has never been cheaper to fly than it is right now in time. In 1980 dollars a $450 fare would be over $1700 now. Except it's still $450 to go from LGA to LAX on USAir (AA).

$1700. Each. Ticket.
I once read that if you added up all the money the airlines had made and lost since inception, it would be a negative number.

We need to repeal the RLA for many reasons. Not the least of which is to let the free market work.

Not attacking you, just want to point something out.
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Old 07-04-2015, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by F15Cricket View Post
I don't know if the majors have learned how to make money through capacity discipline. How much would DAL make this year if they had not flushed your pension? Very little, I would speculate (but am honestly asking). So, in other words, if all the majors had kept their financial obligations, they would either not be profitable or only slightly profitable with today's low oil prices. That may be why they are losing capacity discipline again, because they feel they now "know how to make money" ... And yet are starting to prove they don't.
What's really going on is the endless growth capacity dumpers aren't playing along. The profits you speak of, that are largely the result of industry capacity dicipline, are their motivation to grow into it, hoping the legacies continue to gift them more and more. They all think they can grow at or near double digits while poaching legacy marketshare and there's nothing anyone can do about it. They are about to find out they are wrong.

And its funny how some at airlines that pay less (including less retirement money per pilot) like to get on their high horse about how the evil legacies unfairly lowered their pilot costs in bankruptcy, even though they still have higher pilot costs than the ones making the accusations.

As for the legacies "losing capacity dicipline" they are mostly transferring connection capacity to mainline. The rest is merely regaining a small portion of the capacity that was shed both after 9-11 as well as during the initial waves of the recent mergers.

That's nothing though. We're heading for some brutal capacity/yield wars in the not too distant future.
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