BoilerUP

Wait, what?

Is there some automatic heavy jet overweight landing self-destruct mechanism nobody is aware of?

Al Czervik

The equivalent of landing a 747 above MLW:

http://youtu.be/OmpBYcM06Sk

MikeF16

I wonder just how many close calls DAL or any major has on an annual basis that the public never hears about, then on the flip side how many nonevents draw national media attention.

sailingfun

Generally you can land a smaller narrow body aircraft without a issue at maximum TO weight. On a large widebody you can land safely at max TO weight but depending on field length, temp, alt there is a strong possibility the jet will not be reusable until extensive repairs are done including full wheel, Brake, axle and perhaps truck changes.

BoilerUP

Yes...but repairs following an overweight landing and subsequent high-energy stop aren't exactly going to lead to people dying and a plane surrounded by burning jet fuel.

That also isn't to say that narrowbodies are somehow exempt from physics and therefore aren't subject to the same possibility of brake/LG repair following an overweight landing.

gloopy

Its a judgement call, and we simply don't have all of the facts nor were we in that situation.

That said, I would lean towards running the checklists, which aren't that long in any plane unless there is visibile smoke in the cabin, etc. Including the overweight landing checklist, and planning on a final that would leave us about 10 miles out by the time all checks were complete. Obviously declare and roll trucks, and have the evac checklst handy. In the time it takes to do that, dump as much as you can relative to the situation, and land overweight if necessary especially if there is a long runway.

Did the (now known to be false) fire indication ever extinguish? I'd have a hard time waiting til the floor was hot to say "oh ok now its a fire". On the other hand, the last thing you want is a faulty indication creating a false "white knight" unstable approach to the runway (at even greater weights) followed by a self induced evacuation with wheel fires and all of that, or a safety mandated go around (while possibly on fire) because on that one day you misjudged your ship hot skills in the heat of battle.

But again, that's what I would do based on the limited and incomplete information I have at this time, long after the fact. Other than on the philosophical level for learning's sake, based on what we know now, there is no way I would ridicule that crew for hpw they handled that particular situation, even if it may not have been the exact way I would have.

sailingfun

Narrow bodies normally can operate off shorter runways and hence have far greater margins. I specifically stated the widebody landings can be safely done.

742Dash

This thread is a sad commentary on the state of the piloting profession. I am glad that I am nearing retirement.

A 747 can be safely landed at maximum takeoff weight. The resulting maintenance inspection takes less than 2 hours. You guys think that Boeing dumps fuel after heavy weight takeoffs during testing? You think that they fly around for 12 hours? You think that landing results in the same brake energy as an RTO? (For the record landing generates 42% less brake energy than an RTO, and this before credit for reverse thrust.)

Fire indications are nothing to mess with. You don’t wait. That one has been written in blood.

Hail frequently falls far from the cell that is showing on the radar. Aircraft have had significant hail damage while in clear air. A lot of them. A professional pilot should know that.

Deviating with Chinese military airspace to one side, North Korea on the other and significant language issues – and in busy airspace - is a tad more challenging than flying over Kansas.

sailingfun

You are incorrect on landings requiring 40% less energy then a RTO. Given the same speed and weight the brake energy requirements are the same. If the landing speed is higher then V1 then more energy is required. Any RTO in a large widebody at international weights will require wheel, brake and axle changes.

Hotel Pen

Excellent post!