Spirit of NKS, Part II
12-01-2015, 05:15 PM
#1321
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: A320
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by dn_wisconsin
I don't think a single person on here has stated what they believe is pay parity. So many of you preach it but haven't told anyone what it is. Ripping off someone's head because that's their version of pay parity is not your right. Nor is it mine to say you're nuts for asking for Delta +%5 at DOS.
So for all of you ripping on others, let's hear what "pay parity" is. I will say one thing, picking one airline and using that to scale our pay is not pay parity. That is a small sample.
So for all of you ripping on others, let's hear what "pay parity" is. I will say one thing, picking one airline and using that to scale our pay is not pay parity. That is a small sample.
12-01-2015, 05:36 PM
#1322
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Bus FO
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by GoMountaineers
How about C: Delta +5% DOS. Why are some of us so fixated on JetBlue pay rates as a starting point?
12-01-2015, 05:58 PM
#1323
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,577
Originally Posted by Tranquility
Thinking outside of the box, is there anything preventing management from doing what many regionals are doing and offering new-hires bonuses, bypassing the need to negotiate a good contract with good pay?
12-01-2015, 06:04 PM
#1324
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: A320 Right
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by dn_wisconsin
I don't think a single person on here has stated what they believe is pay parity. So many of you preach it but haven't told anyone what it is. Ripping off someone's head because that's their version of pay parity is not your right. Nor is it mine to say you're nuts for asking for Delta +%5 at DOS.
So for all of you ripping on others, let's hear what "pay parity" is. I will say one thing, picking one airline and using that to scale our pay is not pay parity. That is a small sample.
So for all of you ripping on others, let's hear what "pay parity" is. I will say one thing, picking one airline and using that to scale our pay is not pay parity. That is a small sample.
Their 401k match, health care cost, scope and disability insurance too are the main items for me.
Per diem, international over ride, red eye over ride, training costs, vacation and sick accrual, vacation passes, crew meals, etc etc are all negotiable for me, although if we were to reach true parity these would be included.
12-01-2015, 07:51 PM
#1325
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Airbus button pusher
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by Gunga Din
The average of SW, UA, and DL on their 320 scales. About $130 at 5year FO and $200 at 5 year CA.
Their 401k match, health care cost, scope and disability insurance too are the main items for me.
Per diem, international over ride, red eye over ride, training costs, vacation and sick accrual, vacation passes, crew meals, etc etc are all negotiable for me, although if we were to reach true parity these would be included.
Their 401k match, health care cost, scope and disability insurance too are the main items for me.
Per diem, international over ride, red eye over ride, training costs, vacation and sick accrual, vacation passes, crew meals, etc etc are all negotiable for me, although if we were to reach true parity these would be included.
12-01-2015, 09:17 PM
#1326
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Originally Posted by Saabs
Why would you want legacy scope? Do you want to outsource some flying?
12-01-2015, 09:32 PM
#1327
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Let's not forget that united is literally about to vote in pay increases that would pay 3rd year 320 FOs as much as a 6 yr spirit captain.
Let's also not forget about a 16% retirement contribution of all their earnings not some shiit match that caps at $18k because that's the most you can put in and since it's a match and not a defined contribution then that's all spirits going to put in even if 9% of what you make is more than $18k. True up does not change this and is not what true up is.
Let's also not forget that delta is currently negotiating after voting down a TA and United will have a "me too" if delta beats their new rates.
Let's also not forget SW is negotiating after voting down a decent raise on already decent pay due to scope give backs and crappy retirement
Let's also not forget Jetblue is negotiating
JetBlue -5% at dos in today's environment?! YGTBFKM!!! Yeah I'd toss that without even reading it.
We don't have leverage?! We have more now than we may ever have in our careers.
Parity at dos with scope ltd and retirement and nothing less. Then substantial increases every year to make us the top paid at today's scale by a large margin because ultimately we will be leapfrogged by the other carriers actively negotiating, or a "me too" like United is getting. Anything less is an insult.
I really don't understand why so many here do not think they can or should be compensated like professionals because it's spirit. Is it because half of us came from shiit bag regionals or 36th street cargo that we are just accepting of being crapped on? I'd like to congratulate the recruiting department on filling the ranks with a bunch pilots ready to roll over. This is not Mesa! This is a career airline and we need to negotiate like it is. Let's also stop with this money isn't everything bull. That's why we are all here. That's great if you have a military pension, a second business, or a sugar momma, but so do many of the pilots making the big money and you don't see them accepting less from their airline. It's time we started acting like a union. And for the love of god stop doing everyone else's job.
Let's also not forget about a 16% retirement contribution of all their earnings not some shiit match that caps at $18k because that's the most you can put in and since it's a match and not a defined contribution then that's all spirits going to put in even if 9% of what you make is more than $18k. True up does not change this and is not what true up is.
Let's also not forget that delta is currently negotiating after voting down a TA and United will have a "me too" if delta beats their new rates.
Let's also not forget SW is negotiating after voting down a decent raise on already decent pay due to scope give backs and crappy retirement
Let's also not forget Jetblue is negotiating
JetBlue -5% at dos in today's environment?! YGTBFKM!!! Yeah I'd toss that without even reading it.
We don't have leverage?! We have more now than we may ever have in our careers.
Parity at dos with scope ltd and retirement and nothing less. Then substantial increases every year to make us the top paid at today's scale by a large margin because ultimately we will be leapfrogged by the other carriers actively negotiating, or a "me too" like United is getting. Anything less is an insult.
I really don't understand why so many here do not think they can or should be compensated like professionals because it's spirit. Is it because half of us came from shiit bag regionals or 36th street cargo that we are just accepting of being crapped on? I'd like to congratulate the recruiting department on filling the ranks with a bunch pilots ready to roll over. This is not Mesa! This is a career airline and we need to negotiate like it is. Let's also stop with this money isn't everything bull. That's why we are all here. That's great if you have a military pension, a second business, or a sugar momma, but so do many of the pilots making the big money and you don't see them accepting less from their airline. It's time we started acting like a union. And for the love of god stop doing everyone else's job.
Last edited by Qotsaautopilot; 12-01-2015 at 09:55 PM.
12-01-2015, 10:20 PM
#1328
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: A320
Posts: 694
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
Let's not forget that united is literally about to vote in pay increases that would pay 3rd year 320 FOs as much as a 6 yr spirit captain.
Let's also not forget about a 16% retirement contribution of all their earnings not some shiit match that caps at $18k because that's the most you can put in and since it's a match and not a defined contribution then that's all spirits going to put in even if 9% of what you make is more than $18k. True up does not change this and is not what true up is.
Let's also not forget that delta is currently negotiating after voting down a TA and United will have a "me too" if delta beats their new rates.
Let's also not forget SW is negotiating after voting down a decent raise on already decent pay due to scope give backs and crappy retirement
Let's also not forget Jetblue is negotiating
JetBlue -5% at dos in today's environment?! YGTBFKM!!! Yeah I'd toss that without even reading it.
We don't have leverage?! We have more now than we may ever have in our careers.
Parity at dos with scope ltd and retirement and nothing less. Then substantial increases every year to make us the top paid at today's scale by a large margin because ultimately we will be leapfrogged by the other carriers actively negotiating, or a "me too" like United is getting. Anything less is an insult.
I really don't understand why so many here do not think they can or should be compensated like professionals because it's spirit. Is it because half of us came from shiit bag regionals or 36th street cargo that we are just accepting of being crapped on? I'd like to congratulate the recruiting department on filling the ranks with a bunch pilots ready to roll over. This is not Mesa! This is a career airline and we need to negotiate like it is. Let's also stop with this money isn't everything bull. That's why we are all here. That's great if you have a military pension, a second business, or a sugar momma, but so do many of the pilots making the big money and you don't see them accepting less from their airline. It's time we started acting like a union. And for the love of god stop doing everyone else's job.
Let's also not forget about a 16% retirement contribution of all their earnings not some shiit match that caps at $18k because that's the most you can put in and since it's a match and not a defined contribution then that's all spirits going to put in even if 9% of what you make is more than $18k. True up does not change this and is not what true up is.
Let's also not forget that delta is currently negotiating after voting down a TA and United will have a "me too" if delta beats their new rates.
Let's also not forget SW is negotiating after voting down a decent raise on already decent pay due to scope give backs and crappy retirement
Let's also not forget Jetblue is negotiating
JetBlue -5% at dos in today's environment?! YGTBFKM!!! Yeah I'd toss that without even reading it.
We don't have leverage?! We have more now than we may ever have in our careers.
Parity at dos with scope ltd and retirement and nothing less. Then substantial increases every year to make us the top paid at today's scale by a large margin because ultimately we will be leapfrogged by the other carriers actively negotiating, or a "me too" like United is getting. Anything less is an insult.
I really don't understand why so many here do not think they can or should be compensated like professionals because it's spirit. Is it because half of us came from shiit bag regionals or 36th street cargo that we are just accepting of being crapped on? I'd like to congratulate the recruiting department on filling the ranks with a bunch pilots ready to roll over. This is not Mesa! This is a career airline and we need to negotiate like it is. Let's also stop with this money isn't everything bull. That's why we are all here. That's great if you have a military pension, a second business, or a sugar momma, but so do many of the pilots making the big money and you don't see them accepting less from their airline. It's time we started acting like a union. And for the love of god stop doing everyone else's job.
Btw, I had an SWA jumpseater the other day and he showed me his schedule for this month. 3 on, 4 off the whole month, crediting 109 hours with every weekend off too....and no 'gaming the system' required.
12-02-2015, 05:02 AM
#1329
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
Let's not forget that united is literally about to vote in pay increases that would pay 3rd year 320 FOs as much as a 6 yr spirit captain.
Let's also not forget about a 16% retirement contribution of all their earnings not some shiit match that caps at $18k because that's the most you can put in and since it's a match and not a defined contribution then that's all spirits going to put in even if 9% of what you make is more than $18k. True up does not change this and is not what true up is.
Let's also not forget that delta is currently negotiating after voting down a TA and United will have a "me too" if delta beats their new rates.
Let's also not forget SW is negotiating after voting down a decent raise on already decent pay due to scope give backs and crappy retirement
Let's also not forget Jetblue is negotiating
JetBlue -5% at dos in today's environment?! YGTBFKM!!! Yeah I'd toss that without even reading it.
We don't have leverage?! We have more now than we may ever have in our careers.
Parity at dos with scope ltd and retirement and nothing less. Then substantial increases every year to make us the top paid at today's scale by a large margin because ultimately we will be leapfrogged by the other carriers actively negotiating, or a "me too" like United is getting. Anything less is an insult.
I really don't understand why so many here do not think they can or should be compensated like professionals because it's spirit. Is it because half of us came from shiit bag regionals or 36th street cargo that we are just accepting of being crapped on? I'd like to congratulate the recruiting department on filling the ranks with a bunch pilots ready to roll over. This is not Mesa! This is a career airline and we need to negotiate like it is. Let's also stop with this money isn't everything bull. That's why we are all here. That's great if you have a military pension, a second business, or a sugar momma, but so do many of the pilots making the big money and you don't see them accepting less from their airline. It's time we started acting like a union. And for the love of god stop doing everyone else's job.
Let's also not forget about a 16% retirement contribution of all their earnings not some shiit match that caps at $18k because that's the most you can put in and since it's a match and not a defined contribution then that's all spirits going to put in even if 9% of what you make is more than $18k. True up does not change this and is not what true up is.
Let's also not forget that delta is currently negotiating after voting down a TA and United will have a "me too" if delta beats their new rates.
Let's also not forget SW is negotiating after voting down a decent raise on already decent pay due to scope give backs and crappy retirement
Let's also not forget Jetblue is negotiating
JetBlue -5% at dos in today's environment?! YGTBFKM!!! Yeah I'd toss that without even reading it.
We don't have leverage?! We have more now than we may ever have in our careers.
Parity at dos with scope ltd and retirement and nothing less. Then substantial increases every year to make us the top paid at today's scale by a large margin because ultimately we will be leapfrogged by the other carriers actively negotiating, or a "me too" like United is getting. Anything less is an insult.
I really don't understand why so many here do not think they can or should be compensated like professionals because it's spirit. Is it because half of us came from shiit bag regionals or 36th street cargo that we are just accepting of being crapped on? I'd like to congratulate the recruiting department on filling the ranks with a bunch pilots ready to roll over. This is not Mesa! This is a career airline and we need to negotiate like it is. Let's also stop with this money isn't everything bull. That's why we are all here. That's great if you have a military pension, a second business, or a sugar momma, but so do many of the pilots making the big money and you don't see them accepting less from their airline. It's time we started acting like a union. And for the love of god stop doing everyone else's job.
12-02-2015, 09:46 AM
#1330
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
Let's not forget that united is literally about to vote in pay increases that would pay 3rd year 320 FOs as much as a 6 yr spirit captain.
Let's also not forget about a 16% retirement contribution of all their earnings not some shiit match that caps at $18k because that's the most you can put in and since it's a match and not a defined contribution then that's all spirits going to put in even if 9% of what you make is more than $18k. True up does not change this and is not what true up is.
Let's also not forget that delta is currently negotiating after voting down a TA and United will have a "me too" if delta beats their new rates.
Let's also not forget SW is negotiating after voting down a decent raise on already decent pay due to scope give backs and crappy retirement
Let's also not forget Jetblue is negotiating
JetBlue -5% at dos in today's environment?! YGTBFKM!!! Yeah I'd toss that without even reading it.
We don't have leverage?! We have more now than we may ever have in our careers.
Parity at dos with scope ltd and retirement and nothing less. Then substantial increases every year to make us the top paid at today's scale by a large margin because ultimately we will be leapfrogged by the other carriers actively negotiating, or a "me too" like United is getting. Anything less is an insult.
I really don't understand why so many here do not think they can or should be compensated like professionals because it's spirit. Is it because half of us came from shiit bag regionals or 36th street cargo that we are just accepting of being crapped on? I'd like to congratulate the recruiting department on filling the ranks with a bunch pilots ready to roll over. This is not Mesa! This is a career airline and we need to negotiate like it is. Let's also stop with this money isn't everything bull. That's why we are all here. That's great if you have a military pension, a second business, or a sugar momma, but so do many of the pilots making the big money and you don't see them accepting less from their airline. It's time we started acting like a union. And for the love of god stop doing everyone else's job.
Let's also not forget about a 16% retirement contribution of all their earnings not some shiit match that caps at $18k because that's the most you can put in and since it's a match and not a defined contribution then that's all spirits going to put in even if 9% of what you make is more than $18k. True up does not change this and is not what true up is.
Let's also not forget that delta is currently negotiating after voting down a TA and United will have a "me too" if delta beats their new rates.
Let's also not forget SW is negotiating after voting down a decent raise on already decent pay due to scope give backs and crappy retirement
Let's also not forget Jetblue is negotiating
JetBlue -5% at dos in today's environment?! YGTBFKM!!! Yeah I'd toss that without even reading it.
We don't have leverage?! We have more now than we may ever have in our careers.
Parity at dos with scope ltd and retirement and nothing less. Then substantial increases every year to make us the top paid at today's scale by a large margin because ultimately we will be leapfrogged by the other carriers actively negotiating, or a "me too" like United is getting. Anything less is an insult.
I really don't understand why so many here do not think they can or should be compensated like professionals because it's spirit. Is it because half of us came from shiit bag regionals or 36th street cargo that we are just accepting of being crapped on? I'd like to congratulate the recruiting department on filling the ranks with a bunch pilots ready to roll over. This is not Mesa! This is a career airline and we need to negotiate like it is. Let's also stop with this money isn't everything bull. That's why we are all here. That's great if you have a military pension, a second business, or a sugar momma, but so do many of the pilots making the big money and you don't see them accepting less from their airline. It's time we started acting like a union. And for the love of god stop doing everyone else's job.
I can only hope that the NC learned their lesson. If they try to pull the same ratification spin this time, the TA will fail miserably. Fool us once, shame on you; fool us twice, shame on us.
Note to those who breathlessly report everything they read on social media back to their buds on the MEC. Go ahead and tell on us; tell them. They need to know that the group isn't going to be fooled into accepting a substandard deal in the way that we accepted the last deal.
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