So much for "Just Culture" at Qatar
03-10-2016, 07:59 AM
#1
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So much for "Just Culture" at Qatar
Looks like they're about 30-40 years behind the West when it comes to safety culture.
We Will Not Accept Any Lapses | Inner Art Of Airmanship Blog
We Will Not Accept Any Lapses | Inner Art Of Airmanship Blog
03-10-2016, 08:26 AM
#2
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Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
Looks like they're about 30-40 years behind the West when it comes to safety culture.
We Will Not Accept Any Lapses | Inner Art Of Airmanship Blog
We Will Not Accept Any Lapses | Inner Art Of Airmanship Blog
I do though think it was excessive to fire the entire crew though, but certainly somebody deserved termination over it.
03-10-2016, 08:34 AM
#3
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When I've seen this happen at a place that has a "just safety culture", it's usually because when investigated and interviewed, the crew were saying something that was directly conflicting with the evidence, IE, not being truthful. There may be more going on behind the scenes. It's like filing an ASAP for something grossly negligent.
03-10-2016, 09:08 AM
#4
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Originally Posted by AC560
I do though think it was excessive to fire the entire crew though, but certainly somebody deserved termination over it.
Punishing people for honest mistakes rarely results in a safer aviation environment. Or at least that is the view both the US military and US airline industry have taken (with some unfortunate exceptions).
03-10-2016, 09:14 AM
#5
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Firing people for honest mistakes does not foster a safer environment -- quite the opposite. If we've learned anything about safety culture over the last 30-40 years it's this simple fact. Third world "just fire them so they'll never make that mistake again and move on" vs first world "let's learn from other crews' mistakes via ASAP's and NASA reports."
03-10-2016, 10:15 AM
#6
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Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
Firing people for honest mistakes does not foster a safer environment -- quite the opposite. If we've learned anything about safety culture over the last 30-40 years it's this simple fact. Third world "just fire them so they'll never make that mistake again and move on" vs first world "let's learn from other crews' mistakes via ASAP's and NASA reports."
03-10-2016, 11:09 AM
#7
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This wasn't negligence. Runway at T1 intersection at most places would be requested as Runway "27/T1"
That's exactly what they did. Except in the performance program, T1 wasn't T1 intersection, it was actually a T1 for a notam with an engine or something. That's just ripe for confusion. Now of course we can second guess and say hey why would a fully load 777 want to launch at an intersection instead of full length, but they thought the data came back ok and they were fine. Just like JFK 31L/KE. Everyone does it.
This was a big gotcha moment with a T1 confusion in terms of nomenclature. Remedial training for the flight crew involved and an immediate memo to all QR pilots? Yes. Fire them all? No.
That's exactly what they did. Except in the performance program, T1 wasn't T1 intersection, it was actually a T1 for a notam with an engine or something. That's just ripe for confusion. Now of course we can second guess and say hey why would a fully load 777 want to launch at an intersection instead of full length, but they thought the data came back ok and they were fine. Just like JFK 31L/KE. Everyone does it.
This was a big gotcha moment with a T1 confusion in terms of nomenclature. Remedial training for the flight crew involved and an immediate memo to all QR pilots? Yes. Fire them all? No.
03-10-2016, 11:56 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy
This wasn't negligence. Runway at T1 intersection at most places would be requested as Runway "27/T1"
That's exactly what they did. Except in the performance program, T1 wasn't T1 intersection, it was actually a T1 for a notam with an engine or something. That's just ripe for confusion. Now of course we can second guess and say hey why would a fully load 777 want to launch at an intersection instead of full length, but they thought the data came back ok and they were fine. Just like JFK 31L/KE. Everyone does it.
This was a big gotcha moment with a T1 confusion in terms of nomenclature. Remedial training for the flight crew involved and an immediate memo to all QR pilots? Yes. Fire them all? No.
That's exactly what they did. Except in the performance program, T1 wasn't T1 intersection, it was actually a T1 for a notam with an engine or something. That's just ripe for confusion. Now of course we can second guess and say hey why would a fully load 777 want to launch at an intersection instead of full length, but they thought the data came back ok and they were fine. Just like JFK 31L/KE. Everyone does it.
This was a big gotcha moment with a T1 confusion in terms of nomenclature. Remedial training for the flight crew involved and an immediate memo to all QR pilots? Yes. Fire them all? No.
Common sense says take a look at it a little harder when T1 intersection is basically half the runway and you are a heavy 777
03-10-2016, 12:08 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by VegassBus
Common sense says take a look at it a little harder when T1 intersection is basically half the runway and you are a heavy 777
03-10-2016, 12:09 PM
#10
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Fair point, but again does that justify firing the front end crew?
Point made multiple times about what this does to safety culture. Additionally instilling a culture of fear is rarely a way to run a successful business. It's a poor form of motivation.
Point made multiple times about what this does to safety culture. Additionally instilling a culture of fear is rarely a way to run a successful business. It's a poor form of motivation.
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