Avroman

How about we work on 2 things, #1, a national contract similar to the UAW. Everyone gets the same deal. No more 737 at Southwest paying 3 times as much as Sun Country, no more CRJ paying double at Endeavor compared to Mesa. #2 Longevity transfer. Especially now with the shifting of W.O. regionals being a "preferred path" (if you really believe that) to that major, then time served at the regional should be worth something "flowing" to the major. A lot more lifers at my company would consider leaving if they didn't take a pay cut and still got their 4 weeks vacation every year.
The only hope to start a national seniority list would be to pick a date to start it and everyone hired after that date is on it, everyone in the industry prior is "pre merger". The key debate would be how to determine when you join the list. Private pilot checkride? ATP checkride? Hire date at first air carrier? (would that include 135?)
Good luck, you'll need it.

Scott Stoops

How exactly do you propose to control hiring at each company. ALPA does not control hiring on any property that I know of. They have input, but don't control hiring. If you honestly think for even a moment that any company will give that up you're kidding yourself. So how does a National seniority list work when the union doesn't control putting bodies in seats, not to mention non ALPA carriers. Just don't see it ever happening.

Packrat

The hiring would be easy. Go down to the Union hall. Get an interview list from the most senior guys on the NSL looking for a new position. Hire from that. Just like the longshoremen.

Scott Stoops

You might not be following me. if you think that uch, delta and aa are going to willingly give hiring process up to the union I think you're delusional. You're familiar with the rla right? Exactly what event will cause any management team, not to mention "all" management teams, to relenquish that power?

Packrat

I'm sure you're correct. The airlines would be free to hire whoever they want, they'd just have to draw the pool of interviewees from the list of folks on the NSL who wanted to change jobs.

The "Union Hall" was merely an example.

As an example: J.S. Ragman is a regional pilot who wants to go to the majors. He notes on the NSL data base that he wants to work for Delta, United, AA, Alaska, jetBlue, Spirit and Frontier in that order. Delta isn't hiring. United wants to hire 100 pilots. United goes to the NSL data base and takes the 300 senior guys who have expressed an interest in working for United. They interview and choose from those candidates. They can always go back to the NSL list and get some more if they don't find anyone they like.

If hired, J.S. Ragman goes on the bottom of the UAL seniority list. The NSL only comes into play in case of merger/buyout.

Once J.S. Ragman is at the carrier of his choice, he deletes his hiring preferences from the NSL and proceeds on with his career progression at his chosen airline.

JamesNoBrakes

The easiest way to do this would be to abolish the seniority guaranteed entitlement system and base hiring. You apply and are hired into a position where you serve until you apply and are hired into another, which is open to competition from anyone at any airline. Hiring into a new position is based on merit, performance, etc. Real fast things would get "even"...this is how most business works in the real world.

Scott Stoops

How are you going to force any airline to reference a specific list of applicants? I would love to see a longevity aspect to this profession that recognizes for pay purposes an individual's experience. In that case, most current airline pilots would start at 12 year pay. Try selling that in any contract negotiations...

Scott Stoops

Actually, that isn't how things really work. In a safety based environment, this would be a recipe for disaster. How low can you go. Safety culture requires sop. How much better can you be than me? You really want to start that in this business? How exactly do you measure "better"? Opening a can of worms that shouldn't be opened...

Just be careful what you ask for...

JamesNoBrakes

You mean "hiring" people into new positions based on performance/merit vs. entitlement?

Shirley you can't be serious?

How do you measure better? Well, how did you get this job in the first place? You can answer your own question.

robthree

That's where Unionism come in. Company ABC agrees as part of its CBA with its pilot union to only hire applicants on the NSL as established by ALPA National, and furthermore agrees to interview them by their seniority number there on.

The reverse should have to be true as well, no pilot on the NSL could agree to work for any carrier flying into the US who does not hire exclusively from the NSL.

It would be a much different way of doing things than is currently done, but I don't see that it would necessarily end with tremendously different results than we get now. Mostly, the Majors are hiring the guys with the most experience. Mostly. And by keeping NSL guys away from upstart carriers who don't have ALPA contracts and hire from the NSL, it would benefit the established carriers by creating another barrier to new competition who have a structural labor cost advantage.

Diesel8's idea to establish the NSL at some arbitrary future date, for new pilots only, has the advantage of not upsetting anyone's apple cart today.

To expand upon the idea, the date a pilot earns her ATP, or a military pilot logs 1500 hours, or some equivalent benchmark, the pilot is eligible to join ALPA as an apprentice applicant member, pay $25 to join, and be assessed $10 a month in dues to maintain her position on the NSL. (Perhaps let the dues be deferred until one is hired by an ALPA carrier, and then may be paid off over the course of the probationary year.) If longevity can be negotiated back to the date of joining ALPA, that's a win for the pilot and the Association, AND would provide for the job portability that has been such a bugbear for the profession over the last decade or so.