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Wait. What? NAI DENIED BY USDOT?

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Old 06-30-2016, 06:57 PM
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Default Wait. What? NAI DENIED BY USDOT?

June 30, 2016
ALPA Pilots Welcome DOT Rejection of NAUK
DOT Action Safeguards Fair Competition for U.S. Airlines
The Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l (ALPA) praised today's U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) decision to deny Norwegian Air UK's (NAUK) foreign air carrier permit exemption application as a significant milestone in the drive to ensure fair competition for U.S. airlines in the global marketplace.
"The Department of Transportation took a stand for fair competition today with its denial of Norwegian Air UK's request for an exemption to serve the United States," said Capt. Tim Canoll, ALPA's president. "U.S. airline pilots commend the DOT for seeking to ensure that foreign airlines do not gain an unfair economic advantage in competing against U.S. airlines."
In its order, the DOT found that NAUK's request raises "novel and complex" issues and that granting an exemption would not be in the public interest. ALPA has opposed NAUK's exemption application, which would have allowed it to fly to the United States while the DOT considered its foreign air carrier permit application. NAUK is a UK airline, and its employment structure for its pilots and flight attendants is unclear, as are as its potential effects on U.S. jobs and the international airline industry.
"U.S. airlines and their workers are the best in the world, but they will struggle to compete if the U.S. government does not stop foreign airlines that attempt to use unfair business practices to gain a marketplace advantage," said Capt. Canoll.
"The United States must continue to enforce its international aviation policy to make certain that foreign air carrier business plans will not threaten fair competition for U.S. airlines in the future," said Capt. Canoll.

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Old 06-30-2016, 07:10 PM
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Must have been my contact to my 3 congressmen.
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Old 06-30-2016, 07:26 PM
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O Bama. O Bama. O Bama
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Old 06-30-2016, 07:31 PM
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This is NAUK. Separate from NAI.

Good sign, but we're not out of the woods yet.

But still a very good sign.

Keep individual politicians out of the discussion, please.

But I think we can safely say that it is not so much that they "wanted" to help, as they feared NOT helping. I've learned in the last two years that only the squeakiest wheels get Congressional grease; we had significant enough presence (and letter-writing) that I believe it became politically worrisome.
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Old 06-30-2016, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer View Post
This is NAUK. Separate from NAI.

Good sign, but we're not out of the woods yet.

But still a very good sign.

Keep individual politicians out of the discussion, please.

But I think we can safely say that it is not so much that they "wanted" to help, as they feared NOT helping. I've learned in the last two years that only the squeakiest wheels get Congressional grease; we had significant enough presence (and letter-writing) that I believe it became politically worrisome.
I am not sure you are correct. NAI is a Norwegian airline. Norway is not part of the EU. NAUK is the UK subsidiary created by NAI to take advantage of EU-US open skies. Yes, NAI can still fly to the US with whatever we negotiate with Norway. NAUK would have had unfettered access.

At least I think that is how it worked.
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Old 06-30-2016, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Probe View Post
I am not sure you are correct. NAI is a Norwegian airline. Norway is not part of the EU. NAUK is the UK subsidiary created by NAI to take advantage of EU-US open skies. Yes, NAI can still fly to the US with whatever we negotiate with Norway. NAUK would have had unfettered access.

At least I think that is how it worked.

NAI was supposedly based on Ireland, not the UK. This seems like NAUK is a whole different ball game. If that is really the case can somebody tell me just what the hell is going on in Norway to spawn so many miserable low cost alter egos?
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Old 06-30-2016, 08:25 PM
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So the way I undersrand it, NAI would have been a lost cause, but we basically have the Brexit supporters in Britian to thank for changing the landscape of the ATA.

From ALPA press release:

"In its second filing, ALPA stated that while the timing of the exit (Brexit) process is uncertain, once it is completed, the UK will not be a Member State of the EU, and thus, not a party to the ATA. Given that NAUK is wholly owned by Norwegian Air Shuttle, a citizen of Norway, it would not qualify for operating authorization by the United States."

I'm not sure what this means for NAI.
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Old 06-30-2016, 08:33 PM
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This was only denial of NAUK's temporary application I believe. NAI is already operating under a temporary authorization while the permanent application is decided (a couple years and counting).

Alpa needs to do a better job of explaining the whole thing, as in who is what and what is being applied for and what is being denied because I'm not even sure I have it right.
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Old 07-01-2016, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Probe View Post
I am not sure you are correct. NAI is a Norwegian airline. Norway is not part of the EU. NAUK is the UK subsidiary created by NAI to take advantage of EU-US open skies. Yes, NAI can still fly to the US with whatever we negotiate with Norway. NAUK would have had unfettered access.

At least I think that is how it worked.
Incorrect. Norway (along with Iceland) is covered under the US-EU Air Transport Transport Agreement of 2011 (see link), so any talk of Norway not being an EU member with regards to access to the US market is irrelevant. Norwegian can access the open skies agreements even without an EU subsidiary.

U.S.-EU (Iceland, Norway) Air Transport Agreement of June 21, 2011

I am pretty sure this has to do with the BREXIT vote and only applies to NAUK as the future of US-UK treaties is undetermined at this point.
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Old 07-01-2016, 03:28 AM
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Norwegian Air UK is patently different than Norwegian Air International. While it's true NAUK is trying to take advantage of open skies, NAI is the entity that wants to operate under the flag of convenience. If NAUK is a mugger, NAI is a serial killer.

Flag of convenience = bye bye good paying legacy jobs.

I do agree that ALPA is doing a poor job of keeping people informed. I urge everyone to do themselves a favor and read up on this situation and the history of flag of convienece for an hour or two at some point. You will be very surprised that you haven't been hearing more about this situation after you do.
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