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Loyalty and the Divert Option

Old 08-14-2016, 08:29 AM
  #11  
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IMHO the "don't leave the first one that hires you" was a bad plan from the start. What I was always told by guys smarter and more experienced than I was, "take the first job you're offered, then move on to better offers as they arrive."

At some point, especially given the time-limited nature of a 121 career, a guy leaving the military might want to stop making moves to other airlines and "love the one you're with", but unless you're age 60 when you get that first airline job, I can't see sticking with your first airline if it isn't a good fit for you.

This isn't a marriage, it is a job.
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Old 08-14-2016, 09:25 AM
  #12  
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My advice on this one (this far in) was stick it out and see what the new contract looks like. Take the extra money, the (soon) free parking, etc and simply decouple a bit from the job emotionally. Its hard when you have spent your life identifying with the military gig to look at going to work as "just a job", but sometimes it is. I actually like the fact the success or failure of my company doesn't always hinge on me flying a sortie or finishing my TPS reports. Still--most of us have been programmed for a long time to get emotionally invested in our jobs. I didn't share this to crap on a guy, but instead to get some discussion going amongst the guys starting off or 1-3 years into the gig that are getting other offers.
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Old 08-14-2016, 09:53 AM
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Always appreciate the words of wisdom Albie.
I'm struggling with this situation now...
Working at DL for about 6 months. Currently driving to work in ATL, but wife's job will keep us moving for the next 6 years. So this non-commute is only temporary. My friends at Fedex seem to be loving life, and your contract looks good. If LAX weren't so senior, I probably would have applied yesterday, but we want to live in SoCal eventually and I know LAX is senior at FedEx.
You don't happen to have a seniority calculator to plug in a hypothetical DOH to figure out how far up the ladder one could rise, do you?
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Old 08-14-2016, 11:58 AM
  #14  
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It's a little shocking to hear the guys currently at Delta (all less than 2 yrs in this latest 2014-present hiring spree) who are actively trying to get out. FedEx is a huge one. We aren't talking about just a couple people or even countable on two hands.
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Old 08-14-2016, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by NoDeskJob View Post
Always appreciate the words of wisdom Albie.
I'm struggling with this situation now...
Working at DL for about 6 months. Currently driving to work in ATL, but wife's job will keep us moving for the next 6 years. So this non-commute is only temporary. My friends at Fedex seem to be loving life, and your contract looks good. If LAX weren't so senior, I probably would have applied yesterday, but we want to live in SoCal eventually and I know LAX is senior at FedEx.
You don't happen to have a seniority calculator to plug in a hypothetical DOH to figure out how far up the ladder one could rise, do you?
This has got to be the most annoying millennial thread of the year. By all means "buy the forty acres" become a deacon, give this profession up for all our benefit. There are thousands of qualified people that would appreciate the opportunity. If you don't like working for the sleazy Wall Street investors, there is nowhere for you to go, all major airlines are the same. Until you retire, you will not know if you made the right choice, ask any PAA or EAL pilot.

Recognize that you are only a tool of capitalism. To be discarded at the whims of the inhumane corporations. They owe you nothing and you owe them nothing beyond the 1st and the 15th, that is the deal you made. They don't love you nor are they suppose to. You may never be happy with the harsh realities of commercial flying, the military is probably where you belong.

On the other hand, if you get over yourself and can leave religion, politics and sexual proclivities in the parking lot, you may have a future. The idea is to not kill anyone, support your sisters and brothers and have fun, in spite of the miscreants that will try to keep you from attaining those goals.

Don't listen to the Albie's in this world
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Old 08-14-2016, 05:26 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Albief15 View Post
So—to answer the question—what do we owe our taskmasters? I think we owe them our best efforts, every day, all day, until the day we no longer work for them.
The ALPA code of Ethics covers this. Please consider this:



An Air Line Pilot will faithfully discharge the duty he owes the airline that employs him and whose salary makes possible his way of life. He will do all within his powers to operate his aircraft efficiently and on schedule in a manner that will not cause damage or unnecessary maintenance.

He will respect the officers, directors, and supervisors of his airline, remembering that respect does not entail subservience. He will faithfully obey all lawful directives given by his supervisors, but will insist and, if necessary, refuse to obey any directives that, in his considered judgment, are not lawful or will adversely affect flight safety.

He will remember that in the final analysis the responsibility for safe completion of the flight rests upon his shoulders. He will not knowingly falsify any log or record, nor will he condone such action by other crew members. He will remember that a full month’s salary demands a full and fair month’s work.

On his days off, he will not engage in any occupation or activity that will diminish his efficiency or bring discredit to his profession. He will realize that he represents the airline to all who meet him and will at all times keep his personal appearance and conduct above reproach.

He will give his airline, its officers, directors, and supervisors the full loyalty that is their due, and will refrain from speaking ill of them. If he feels it necessary to reveal and correct conditions that are not conducive to safe operations and harmonious relations, he will direct his criticism to the proper authorities within ALPA.

He will hold his airline’s business secrets in confidence, and will take care that they are not improperly revealed.

Please remember: you are a widget. You are nothing but "labor" to the airline. This generation doesn't care about loyalty. Be loyal to your family and take care of you. Management takes care of themselves, and that's about it. They don't have a code of ethics like we do. They have some fancy HR classes, seminars, symposiums, and some guidelines and some text books.
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Old 08-14-2016, 05:34 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Sliceback View Post
For new hires - keep applying to your higher ranked choices if you get hired at a lower ranked choice. Is it worth quitting your fourth choice after a year to go to your third choice? Doubtful. But for your first choice? I think most guys would say yes up to a point. Three months? Sure. .
It's like getting asked to the prom. You go with the first person that asks you to the dance. It's the same in the airline business. There may be other proms around the corner, so feel free to keep your tux pressed and ready to go should you feel the need to put on your dancing shoes. You may really like that first prom and stick around. Or, you may not like the punch or the tunes and decide this scene is not for you. Sooner or later the music stops and when it does, make sure you've got a nice comfortable chair. You may never get asked to the prom again, so enjoy it. You never know, you may really dig the first one, even though it wasn't on your list of proms to go to. That's what happened to me. You can't predict when proms merge, or when they go bankrupt, or when they don't pay the band, but, you just never know, the un-cool proms in 1994 may turn out pretty darn nice in 2016. Your prom will only be as cool as the DJ (management). You can't tell how long that DJ will stick around, so be ready to learn a few other dance moves, or flex your taste in music. And you really never know, I hear disco is making a comeback....
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Old 08-14-2016, 05:41 PM
  #18  
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For you to be really enjoying SWA, you would have had to get hired there 20 years ago.

Career progression can't happen if you have a very large pool of able bodied and young Captains.

Everyone should do their research on Airline X, Y, or Z. Understand their business model, career progression, estimated upgrade time, average age of pilots, expansion (or contraction) plans, financial health, base and base seniority structures. Ask all the right questions now, so you don't get under the covers and discover she's a he, or this dude, dude, dude looks like a lady.
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:07 PM
  #19  
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I am touched by Albie's loyalty to an airline that will buy and sell a pilot like a pack of jailhouse cigarettes if it will turn a profit. It doesn't matter what airline you are working for as we are all simply "labor units" to be manipulated as needed. It is kind of nice to hear somebody that has the capacity to "turn the other cheek" and appreciate what he has. It Is a pleasant surprise to hear from somebody in this industry that has been treated fairly and not exploited by their employer as so many of us have. As somebody that has seen and done some pretty unpleasant things to get by in this world you have reinforced my lost faith in mankind. Thanks Albie and high five!
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Old 08-14-2016, 07:22 PM
  #20  
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Always good to keep the options open.

Out in Honolulu at the 'niche' legacy,
management will expect you to all the above as a loyal employee and expect you to earn less than your peers at other airlines because we are "special", and "smaller."

But welcome to the only base at HNL, the most expensive place in the country.


To say people should keep looking is an understatement.
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