Sliceback

The distance flown by US 1549 was greater than the distance required to return to LGA so an immediate RTB might have been successful.

That's with 20/20 hindsight. No one's faulting Sully for not having 20/20 foresight that he might have made it if he had turned immediately.

Learning about the total energy available (speed and altitude) and what the aircraft is capable of achieving from the energy point, or before or after that energy point, is worth understanding.

Sim instructors are providing learning points when they get you thinking about what the a/c can, or can't, do.

Allegheny

I work for AA, former US and fly the Bus. Pray all you experts how do you dead stick a 150Klb airplane on a 7000 runway absolutely correctly the first time? How do you keep from running off the end? If you fly a jet, have you trained for a dead stick landing? I have done no flap landings, I had to for the type but that is not a no power landing.

I have no idea how to accomplish that on 7000ft of runway and stay on the pavement. That's why it took 17 attempts on average for the simulator pilots.

It's not in the training syllabus and if it happens for real real you have to do it absolutely correct the first time.

deltajuliet

It didn't take them 17 attempts, did it? I felt like that was a really high number put in their for artistic license.

Sliceback

We can use Hollywood or the NTSB as a source.

The NTSB report on page 50 reported the following - scenario 2 (engine failure at actual location) attempting to land -

5 of 7 successful for LGA 13
2 of 6 successful for LGA 22
1 of 2 successful for TEB 19

It wasn't impossible, or super human, to make it back. But the NTSB, IMO correctly, ruled that given the circumstances (ie lack of 20/20 foresight?) Sully made the appropriate decision.

Sliceback

First question - energy mgt. Just like we do on other approaches but at a much tougher level.

2. Same response as #1. Using the brake system available(normal, alternate, reserve).

3. For me personally - every jet, multiple times. Maybe more than 20x? IDK, don't keep track, just do it. The energy required at a high and low key is similar across various airliners but with some variations. Most guys don't succeed at first because how the jet must be flown, if you barely have enough energy, is different than our normal, idle power, descent/approach profile. So exposure in training, at an energy level that can barely make it, is important. Too much energy allows sub optimum performance when optimum performance might be needed if a low energy state. Perfect example is in the NTSB report, why did some make it back and some not make the runway?? Maybe THAT's what we should see in training?

4. It didn't take 17 tries. The success rates were 5/7, 2/6, 1/2, 8/15 total. 70% for LGA 13, 33% for LGA 22, and 50% for TEB 19. With training could the success rate be close to 100%? Someone made it each runway with the energy available. Why didn't the others? IMO that's the biggest take away from the report and we are not given the information.

5. Agreed, there are no second chances in real life with no thrust.

6. Seven years after the accident and IMO it's something spare sim time should be used for. Did it this summer. Different scenarios. Takeoff, descent. Four to five different attempts? The worst was heavy weight, flaps up, straight out departure, clean and at 3000' dual engine failure. Made it back but it was scary, even in the sim. Based on that knowledge I wouldn't attempt a max GW straight out departure return. Less than max GW, or with a slightly turning departure that reduces the distance back to the runway? Unless there's an immediately obvious safer solution I'd try to make it back. You can't delay. Exposure in training helps the decision making process.

Allegheny

3. For me personally - every jet, multiple times. Maybe more than 20x? IDK, don't keep track, just do it.

That would produce a very interesting conversation in the chief pilots office. As it is now you will be talking with the Safety people if you pass through 1000AGL and you are not on speed, fully configured, and fully stable. On the BUS ACARS will print out a message with exceeded parameters. If you are way outside the limits you will be talking to Safety people who will urge you to file ASA, and NASA reports.

I don't know how to reconcile training for deadstick situations with the company's and FAA's instance on "stable approaches."

Sliceback

I agree. Jeff should have been yelling "unstable, go-around."

PRS Guitars

YGBFSM!

It's training for an emergency in a sim. That's what a sim is for. I was an F-16 pilot and used to train routinely for a flameout in the real plane. Now I fly T-38's and the procedure is to eject if you have a duel eng flameout. That doesn't stop me from practicing it in a sim just to see if I can do it. This would probably be a great thing to try in an Airbus sim.

And by the way, if you're stable at 1000' on a dead stick landing...you're not going to make it (unless you're on a higher wire). You need either excess speed or altitude and then be able to bleed it off as required.

tyler durden

A quick Google search of the author's profile says it all. This delusional/angry mindset would not be satisfied unless the heroic protagonist were to be played by a minority actor (male or female). Based on a TRUE story, the director had the audacity to actually make the character appear as close to Sully as he could. Shame on Eastwood. (Sarcasm).

To satisfy a social agenda, the author appears to prefer the character be represented by a minority. Wow.

Look around; as ridiculous as it appears, this is the direction popularly taken and speaks to the absolute lunacy of the liberal elite and their influence in the media, entertainment, culture, public school system, universities and everything in between. Faced with daily bombardment of this demonizing perspective even our children have grown accustomed to the accepted ridicule of white males in commercials, films, sitcoms, advertisements, etc.

if you watch closely, you will see this perspective with alarming consistently.

NMuir

Saw it today, the trailer gave me really low expectations (being over dramatized). But I was pleasantly surprised at how well done it was.