dn_wisconsin

I think most of the criticism is from lack of context. It sounds like you are just complaining rather then giving reasons and making a good argument.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you on educating prospective new hires but maybe explain your position better?

Gunga Din

You're assuming the guy gets hired by a legacy with in 4-5 years. That's about the break even point I calculated. A lot of guys won't get that call. They would have been better leaving their regional ASAP.
It depends if you're a betting man. But don't kid yourself. The work rules here are not better than most large regionals.

Flytolive719

It is also very selfish to try and influence others career decisions with exaggerations and lies to hope that this has influence on speeding up negotiations. For most people Spirit is a definate improvement over any regional. And under the current contract our 2nd year FO pay is comparable to 10 year regional capt. pay. We do need raises but discouraging other pilots out of enjoying a higher QOL just so you can "get yours" is not the way to do it. We're all on the same team here. If you are truly unhappy in your current position you should put some effort into improving your own life.

iFlyHi

Im really curious what regionals you're referencing. All of the ones I can think of have nothing like Spirit has.

Flytolive719

My last company was a large regional with an industry leading (regional) contract and the work rules here are far better.

Wink

What regional pays a 10 year captain $72/hour? A quick search on APC puts most 10 year rj captains in the 86-91 range, which is around year 4-5 at Spirit. An Endeavor Captain wouldn't recuperate the pay loss until year 9 as an FO (I've read a lot of debate on these boards that the quick upgrades at Spirit are gone, so i didn't look at the Captain payscale)

Obviously, this is only based on pay rates listed as I'm not familiar with Spirit's work rules. I'd assume they are superior and, if only for the longer stage lengths, the schedules are more productive and ultimately better.

I'm sure life at Spirit probably is better than at a regional, but the bolded statement seems disingenuous.

Gunga Din

What work rule is better? 4 days off. It's good and bad. But okay. It forces them to give you blocks of day home. But that also makes for 6 day blocks away.
Red/green? Most regionals have similar. Trip rig? Guarante day? Ours blows. Trip integrity. Had it. What possible rule is amazing here? MUP? JM? Only for a few people is this even an issue.
Lots of guys over look the pay because of "amazing" work rules only to come here and find they aren't any better. We owe it to them to really be honest.
Training department (not the instructors but the leadership) runs the schedule too tight. It's a jeopardizing risk you run. Worse than most regionals. Captain authority here is a joke. Gate agents control the process of boarding and our union is as passive about this as everything else.
Training pay is unbelievably below standards. Taking home $1000-1500 for entire training is shameful. Again union won't spend negotiation capital for new guys.
If all you know are turbo prop or fly by night cargo then yes, NK rules are fine. But they are industry average. They aren't equal to UA or DL and certainly not enough to ignore the pathetic pay.
But if you think you won't get a call from a legacy then you're better off coming here and sucking it up and hoping we get a contract.

Otterbox

As someone looking at Spirit, can you provide the numbers and situation to backup your statement about the loss of 250k by going to Spirit vs X?

FreeSmiles

Our schedules are way less efficient. 13.5 hour 3 day. 18 hour 4 day. That is the norm. There are some 22.5 hour 4 days but those are pathetic, and those generally have TAFB around 95 hours.

A320ULCC

Simple math comparing pay and retirement at NKS vs AA, Delta or United during the fist few years of employment. I don't think anyone has to hold your hand to figure that out.