Norwegian Shuttle hiring US-based 787 pilots
10-18-2016, 07:22 PM
#161
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by iFlyRC
In the world of contract flying, lowest bidder wins. It is a bad place to be, one should get out of that situation as quickly as possible. Regional guy goes to another job that pays more, can't fault him. That same guy would gladly go to a mainline if they would hire him. You can't turn down higher paying jobs waiting for a phone call that may never come. A mainline pilot shouldn't take offense to that. From a regional guys point of view, I am subsidizing your higher pay and better QOL, AND you want me to turn down a job flying a 787 that pays a lot more than I make now? Tell you what, give me a class date, or go fly a kite.
And for the record, I have absolutely no plans of doing that job.
And for the record, I have absolutely no plans of doing that job.
10-18-2016, 11:31 PM
#162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Xx
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by BreezyPalms
Might as well include...
You have to sign a $40,000 training bond....
Must convert to EASA in 2 years while flying on a waiver. Depending on your experience and time in airplanes over a certain tonnage you only take 3 writtens rather than 14, but you are granted a frozen ATPL.
You have to sign a $40,000 training bond....
Must convert to EASA in 2 years while flying on a waiver. Depending on your experience and time in airplanes over a certain tonnage you only take 3 writtens rather than 14, but you are granted a frozen ATPL.
From my understanding this provision was done away with under EASA. Once you begin your exams you have 18 months to complete.
For Holders of an ICAO ATPL & Want to Convert to an Unrestricted EASA ATPL
If you hold a EASA Class 1 medical, R/T license, more than 1,500 hours on multi‐pilot aircraft, are type rated already, and have more than 500 hours on type: You are still required to pass all of the 14 EASA ATPL theoretical exams under the direction of an approved training organisation; however you are not required to attend a formal ground school. On completion of passing the examinations, you may complete the training as required in the simulator of which you have more than 500 hours on type, and on which an ATPL skills test will be conducted by an EASA flight ops inspector.
It took me 10.5 months 5 days a week to complete whilst working for a European Airline.
Last edited by fogrunner; 10-19-2016 at 12:02 AM.
10-19-2016, 12:54 PM
#163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,909
Originally Posted by fogrunner
This was a provision under the old JAA provided by the U.K. CAA Authority. The license was restricted to "G" registered aircraft. You didn't receive a frozen ATPL (they are issued to pilots that complete the exams but don't have the experience for the ATPL).
From my understanding this provision was done away with under EASA. Once you begin your exams you have 18 months to complete.
For Holders of an ICAO ATPL & Want to Convert to an Unrestricted EASA ATPL
If you hold a EASA Class 1 medical, R/T license, more than 1,500 hours on multi‐pilot aircraft, are type rated already, and have more than 500 hours on type: You are still required to pass all of the 14 EASA ATPL theoretical exams under the direction of an approved training organisation; however you are not required to attend a formal ground school. On completion of passing the examinations, you may complete the training as required in the simulator of which you have more than 500 hours on type, and on which an ATPL skills test will be conducted by an EASA flight ops inspector.
It took me 10.5 months 5 days a week to complete whilst working for a European Airline.
From my understanding this provision was done away with under EASA. Once you begin your exams you have 18 months to complete.
For Holders of an ICAO ATPL & Want to Convert to an Unrestricted EASA ATPL
If you hold a EASA Class 1 medical, R/T license, more than 1,500 hours on multi‐pilot aircraft, are type rated already, and have more than 500 hours on type: You are still required to pass all of the 14 EASA ATPL theoretical exams under the direction of an approved training organisation; however you are not required to attend a formal ground school. On completion of passing the examinations, you may complete the training as required in the simulator of which you have more than 500 hours on type, and on which an ATPL skills test will be conducted by an EASA flight ops inspector.
It took me 10.5 months 5 days a week to complete whilst working for a European Airline.
10-19-2016, 10:27 PM
#164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Xx
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by captjns
The IAA put a limit of 18 months to complete the exams from the time I wrote the first exam. My validation was renewed until my final exam was recognized and my next LPC was accomplished. Tough studying, but well worth the trophy. The exams were given in Dublin in the fall and spring. Not all subjects were offered as I recall. I started writing the exams, I think the Spring of 2006 and finished the following Spring. I spread the exams out to 5 5 then 4.
10-26-2016, 06:46 PM
#165
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 15
They ARE a direct threat but that's because they are depressing yields and profits over the Atlantic with their low cost model.
The reason they are in competition is because a European carriers offer a superior product. The US carriers have a terrible product and awful service, it's embarrassing. When was the last time one of our carriers ranked in the top for quality and service?
As a US airline pilot I would chose to fly a European carrier every time over US carriers.
That doesn't seem too bad for first year pay. I'm assuming year 2 pay jumps up significantly similar to UPS?
With regards to not having a degree and joining the legacies. I have no idea why we require a pilot to have a qualification which has no effect on how good a pilot they are.
10-26-2016, 08:19 PM
#166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,198
Originally Posted by BigGrecian
The reason they are in competition is because a European carriers offer a superior product. The US carriers have a terrible product and awful service, it's embarrassing. When was the last time one of our carriers ranked in the top for quality and service?
As a US airline pilot I would chose to fly a European carrier every time over US carriers.
No, It doesn't improve much beyond that, in fact I think that's pretty close to the top.
With regards to not having a degree and joining the legacies. I have no idea why we require a pilot to have a qualification which has no effect on how good a pilot they are.
As a US airline pilot I would chose to fly a European carrier every time over US carriers.
No, It doesn't improve much beyond that, in fact I think that's pretty close to the top.
With regards to not having a degree and joining the legacies. I have no idea why we require a pilot to have a qualification which has no effect on how good a pilot they are.
You're preaching to the choir, you still need that insanely overpriced, worthless piece of paper that you will never effectively use for anything other than checking off a box.
10-27-2016, 03:43 AM
#167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,939
Originally Posted by iFlyRC
We aren't pilots, we are system managers. As far as a degree goes, I have one. I think College is the worlds biggest scam, yet we must have a degree. If for no other reason, it shows that we stuck to something and jumped through the hoops. Totally stupid considering that all of us, to be in the industry we are in, at the point of which we are flying Boeings and Airbuses, shows a far greater commitment and hoops to jump through than any Bachelors or Master degree ever could require.
You're preaching to the choir, you still need that insanely overpriced, worthless piece of paper that you will never effectively use for anything other than checking off a box.
You're preaching to the choir, you still need that insanely overpriced, worthless piece of paper that you will never effectively use for anything other than checking off a box.
10-27-2016, 04:30 AM
#168
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
Some clarifications from the Euroland side of things:
Norwegian still has a pilot base in BKK. They are not hiring pilots to that base as it is actually in fairly high demand. Europeans, particularly Scandinavians, love Thailand and have no issues being based there. My wife works in crew planning for a small Scandinavian charter airline and whenever sim training in BKK is available, guys are climbing all over each other to get it. Also remember that Thai Airways was initially started by SAS (look at the old paint schemes of SAS and Thai - virtually identical), and SAS held a large stake in Thai until not too long ago. So yes, there is a BKK base, but it is fully staffed and has a long waiting list from Scandinavian pilots who want to get there.
European airlines operate very differently from U.S. airlines. Even the major European legacy airlines do not pay what the major U.S. airlines pay. Subcontracting and temporary contracts are very common among European airlines. There are many 6 month to one year contract available at many European airlines, including Star Alliance members Brussels Airlines and Aegean. British Airways has subcontracted some of their mainline flying to 737 charter airline Jet Time. SkyTeam member Air Europa is doing subcontract flying for WOW Air, an Icelandic LCC. There are contract agencies all over Europe hiring pilots on both short and long term contract with various charter airlines who are in turn doing wet leases with other airlines. The relationships can get quite complicated at times. So when it comes to the idea of not being directly employed with an airline, many European pilots are far more used to that type of arrangement. So while the Norwegian deal may seem like it is shockingly underhanded and shady, it is an arrangement that is not that different than many others in Europe. Which may explain that the outrage over Norwegian is not nearly as high in Europe as it is in the States.
Following up with that, I have spoken with several Norwegian 787 pilots and every single one of them is quite happy. They all say they are treated well and the flying is very nice. There has been nothing shady with the contract. The same cannot be said on the 737 side of the operation. One of my neighbours is an A330/A340 captain with SAS and he is going to take an early retirement to go fly the 787 for Norwegian.
Lastly, regarding the EASA ATPL. I just completed the conversion process in July from my FAA certificates. While it may seem daunting, it is quite doable for most average people (I have never been accused of being a rocket scientist and I made it through just fine). The G- registered option with only two exams has gone away. There are no more short cuts and to get an EASA license you will have to do all 14 exams. Experienced pilots are exempt from the requirement to do a formal ground school and as such you can self certify your readiness for the exams. Personally I bought the Bristol Ground School Digital ATPL program and went through that, supplementing it with a question bank. While officially the question bank is not exact like the Gleim books with the FAA, they are VERY close and the vast majority of them end up being the exact same questions you get on the exams. So between the two resources I was able to get the exams passed in four exam sessions. The medical is extensive, but not insurmountable. Actually if you already posses an ICAO first class medical, your initial exam is actually done to renewal standards. I am not in the best of shape and I had zero issues with the medical. Basically if you do not have high blood pressure, have vision correctable to 20/20, and no history of illnesses or medical problems, passing should not be a concern. The UK has the best laid out information for converting the licenses, and at the very least I think they are the best place for doing the exams. But I have heard the Irish authority is easy to work with as well and I used the Danish authorities and found them to be easy to work with too. Many pilots I know in Europe have had their state of license issue changed to Iceland because they are very accommodating and have the lowest fees in EASA. State of license issue does not matter, any EASA license can operate any EASA registered airplane, regardless of country. Some airlines want you to change your license to their own country (easyJet does this), but this is because it makes their paperwork easier when doing the LPC.
Anyway that is a little bit of the view as I see it from the other side of the pond. I am not going to offer any opinions regarding Norwegian with regards to "should they be allowed to operate?" or "are they a threat to the career?" type of questions. But I do know a few guys working for Norwegian on both the 787 and 737 fleets, I do live in Europe, and I have recently done the EASA conversion, so hopefully I can add a little bit of information for those who are interested.
Norwegian still has a pilot base in BKK. They are not hiring pilots to that base as it is actually in fairly high demand. Europeans, particularly Scandinavians, love Thailand and have no issues being based there. My wife works in crew planning for a small Scandinavian charter airline and whenever sim training in BKK is available, guys are climbing all over each other to get it. Also remember that Thai Airways was initially started by SAS (look at the old paint schemes of SAS and Thai - virtually identical), and SAS held a large stake in Thai until not too long ago. So yes, there is a BKK base, but it is fully staffed and has a long waiting list from Scandinavian pilots who want to get there.
European airlines operate very differently from U.S. airlines. Even the major European legacy airlines do not pay what the major U.S. airlines pay. Subcontracting and temporary contracts are very common among European airlines. There are many 6 month to one year contract available at many European airlines, including Star Alliance members Brussels Airlines and Aegean. British Airways has subcontracted some of their mainline flying to 737 charter airline Jet Time. SkyTeam member Air Europa is doing subcontract flying for WOW Air, an Icelandic LCC. There are contract agencies all over Europe hiring pilots on both short and long term contract with various charter airlines who are in turn doing wet leases with other airlines. The relationships can get quite complicated at times. So when it comes to the idea of not being directly employed with an airline, many European pilots are far more used to that type of arrangement. So while the Norwegian deal may seem like it is shockingly underhanded and shady, it is an arrangement that is not that different than many others in Europe. Which may explain that the outrage over Norwegian is not nearly as high in Europe as it is in the States.
Following up with that, I have spoken with several Norwegian 787 pilots and every single one of them is quite happy. They all say they are treated well and the flying is very nice. There has been nothing shady with the contract. The same cannot be said on the 737 side of the operation. One of my neighbours is an A330/A340 captain with SAS and he is going to take an early retirement to go fly the 787 for Norwegian.
Lastly, regarding the EASA ATPL. I just completed the conversion process in July from my FAA certificates. While it may seem daunting, it is quite doable for most average people (I have never been accused of being a rocket scientist and I made it through just fine). The G- registered option with only two exams has gone away. There are no more short cuts and to get an EASA license you will have to do all 14 exams. Experienced pilots are exempt from the requirement to do a formal ground school and as such you can self certify your readiness for the exams. Personally I bought the Bristol Ground School Digital ATPL program and went through that, supplementing it with a question bank. While officially the question bank is not exact like the Gleim books with the FAA, they are VERY close and the vast majority of them end up being the exact same questions you get on the exams. So between the two resources I was able to get the exams passed in four exam sessions. The medical is extensive, but not insurmountable. Actually if you already posses an ICAO first class medical, your initial exam is actually done to renewal standards. I am not in the best of shape and I had zero issues with the medical. Basically if you do not have high blood pressure, have vision correctable to 20/20, and no history of illnesses or medical problems, passing should not be a concern. The UK has the best laid out information for converting the licenses, and at the very least I think they are the best place for doing the exams. But I have heard the Irish authority is easy to work with as well and I used the Danish authorities and found them to be easy to work with too. Many pilots I know in Europe have had their state of license issue changed to Iceland because they are very accommodating and have the lowest fees in EASA. State of license issue does not matter, any EASA license can operate any EASA registered airplane, regardless of country. Some airlines want you to change your license to their own country (easyJet does this), but this is because it makes their paperwork easier when doing the LPC.
Anyway that is a little bit of the view as I see it from the other side of the pond. I am not going to offer any opinions regarding Norwegian with regards to "should they be allowed to operate?" or "are they a threat to the career?" type of questions. But I do know a few guys working for Norwegian on both the 787 and 737 fleets, I do live in Europe, and I have recently done the EASA conversion, so hopefully I can add a little bit of information for those who are interested.
10-27-2016, 09:43 AM
#169
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Capt 777/744
Posts: 36
NAI USA : " Suckers Wanted in the USA "
NAI USA : " Suckers Wanted in the USA "
---------------
--- Background:
Link - https://www.thestreet.com/story/1253...them-well.html
At the start of NAI's inception in 2014, Its CEO, Kjos, stated on record: " I need Experienced Pilots and I pay Them Well".
In his statement : Norwegian pays its captains about $170,000 annually and pays first officers about half that, Kjos said. A typical hire might be a pilot who is about to retire, has flown 20 years for a major European carrier and would like to spend a few years flying the Boeing 787 and living in Bangkok. "They think the pay and salary are quite good," Kjos said, adding: "For me to sleep well at night, I need experienced long-haul pilots."
--- Summary:
Their CEO stated on record, $170,000 yearly, which is over $ 14,000 month, - and - demands 20 years major European airline experience ?
Their FLL wanted ad states " Captain $10,000 month, which is $ 120,000 yearly, which is - $50,000 LESS than his own statement on record,
- and -
Experience "1,000 hours on a wide body or narrow body aircraft in long haul operation ", far away from his own bold statement , of " flown 20 years for a major European carrier ".
--- Conclusion:
NAI's CEO speaking out of both sides of his mouth - OR - simply " Suckers Wanted in the USA ".
Which one is it Mr Kjos ???
There is not enough "Ambien" in the world for this kind of Disparate Monkey Business .
The bottom line is Exploitation for those willing to accept this second class citizen status, under Kjos's USA project.
----------------
---------------
--- Background:
Link - https://www.thestreet.com/story/1253...them-well.html
At the start of NAI's inception in 2014, Its CEO, Kjos, stated on record: " I need Experienced Pilots and I pay Them Well".
In his statement : Norwegian pays its captains about $170,000 annually and pays first officers about half that, Kjos said. A typical hire might be a pilot who is about to retire, has flown 20 years for a major European carrier and would like to spend a few years flying the Boeing 787 and living in Bangkok. "They think the pay and salary are quite good," Kjos said, adding: "For me to sleep well at night, I need experienced long-haul pilots."
--- Summary:
Their CEO stated on record, $170,000 yearly, which is over $ 14,000 month, - and - demands 20 years major European airline experience ?
Their FLL wanted ad states " Captain $10,000 month, which is $ 120,000 yearly, which is - $50,000 LESS than his own statement on record,
- and -
Experience "1,000 hours on a wide body or narrow body aircraft in long haul operation ", far away from his own bold statement , of " flown 20 years for a major European carrier ".
--- Conclusion:
NAI's CEO speaking out of both sides of his mouth - OR - simply " Suckers Wanted in the USA ".
Which one is it Mr Kjos ???
There is not enough "Ambien" in the world for this kind of Disparate Monkey Business .
The bottom line is Exploitation for those willing to accept this second class citizen status, under Kjos's USA project.
----------------
10-27-2016, 10:28 AM
#170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by NEDude
Some clarifications from the Euroland side of things:
Norwegian still has a pilot base in BKK. They are not hiring pilots to that base as it is actually in fairly high demand. Europeans, particularly Scandinavians, love Thailand and have no issues being based there. My wife works in crew planning for a small Scandinavian charter airline and whenever sim training in BKK is available, guys are climbing all over each other to get it. Also remember that Thai Airways was initially started by SAS (look at the old paint schemes of SAS and Thai - virtually identical), and SAS held a large stake in Thai until not too long ago. So yes, there is a BKK base, but it is fully staffed and has a long waiting list from Scandinavian pilots who want to get there.
European airlines operate very differently from U.S. airlines. Even the major European legacy airlines do not pay what the major U.S. airlines pay. Subcontracting and temporary contracts are very common among European airlines. There are many 6 month to one year contract available at many European airlines, including Star Alliance members Brussels Airlines and Aegean. British Airways has subcontracted some of their mainline flying to 737 charter airline Jet Time. SkyTeam member Air Europa is doing subcontract flying for WOW Air, an Icelandic LCC. There are contract agencies all over Europe hiring pilots on both short and long term contract with various charter airlines who are in turn doing wet leases with other airlines. The relationships can get quite complicated at times. So when it comes to the idea of not being directly employed with an airline, many European pilots are far more used to that type of arrangement. So while the Norwegian deal may seem like it is shockingly underhanded and shady, it is an arrangement that is not that different than many others in Europe. Which may explain that the outrage over Norwegian is not nearly as high in Europe as it is in the States.
Following up with that, I have spoken with several Norwegian 787 pilots and every single one of them is quite happy. They all say they are treated well and the flying is very nice. There has been nothing shady with the contract. The same cannot be said on the 737 side of the operation. One of my neighbours is an A330/A340 captain with SAS and he is going to take an early retirement to go fly the 787 for Norwegian.
Lastly, regarding the EASA ATPL. I just completed the conversion process in July from my FAA certificates. While it may seem daunting, it is quite doable for most average people (I have never been accused of being a rocket scientist and I made it through just fine). The G- registered option with only two exams has gone away. There are no more short cuts and to get an EASA license you will have to do all 14 exams. Experienced pilots are exempt from the requirement to do a formal ground school and as such you can self certify your readiness for the exams. Personally I bought the Bristol Ground School Digital ATPL program and went through that, supplementing it with a question bank. While officially the question bank is not exact like the Gleim books with the FAA, they are VERY close and the vast majority of them end up being the exact same questions you get on the exams. So between the two resources I was able to get the exams passed in four exam sessions. The medical is extensive, but not insurmountable. Actually if you already posses an ICAO first class medical, your initial exam is actually done to renewal standards. I am not in the best of shape and I had zero issues with the medical. Basically if you do not have high blood pressure, have vision correctable to 20/20, and no history of illnesses or medical problems, passing should not be a concern. The UK has the best laid out information for converting the licenses, and at the very least I think they are the best place for doing the exams. But I have heard the Irish authority is easy to work with as well and I used the Danish authorities and found them to be easy to work with too. Many pilots I know in Europe have had their state of license issue changed to Iceland because they are very accommodating and have the lowest fees in EASA. State of license issue does not matter, any EASA license can operate any EASA registered airplane, regardless of country. Some airlines want you to change your license to their own country (easyJet does this), but this is because it makes their paperwork easier when doing the LPC.
Anyway that is a little bit of the view as I see it from the other side of the pond. I am not going to offer any opinions regarding Norwegian with regards to "should they be allowed to operate?" or "are they a threat to the career?" type of questions. But I do know a few guys working for Norwegian on both the 787 and 737 fleets, I do live in Europe, and I have recently done the EASA conversion, so hopefully I can add a little bit of information for those who are interested.
Norwegian still has a pilot base in BKK. They are not hiring pilots to that base as it is actually in fairly high demand. Europeans, particularly Scandinavians, love Thailand and have no issues being based there. My wife works in crew planning for a small Scandinavian charter airline and whenever sim training in BKK is available, guys are climbing all over each other to get it. Also remember that Thai Airways was initially started by SAS (look at the old paint schemes of SAS and Thai - virtually identical), and SAS held a large stake in Thai until not too long ago. So yes, there is a BKK base, but it is fully staffed and has a long waiting list from Scandinavian pilots who want to get there.
European airlines operate very differently from U.S. airlines. Even the major European legacy airlines do not pay what the major U.S. airlines pay. Subcontracting and temporary contracts are very common among European airlines. There are many 6 month to one year contract available at many European airlines, including Star Alliance members Brussels Airlines and Aegean. British Airways has subcontracted some of their mainline flying to 737 charter airline Jet Time. SkyTeam member Air Europa is doing subcontract flying for WOW Air, an Icelandic LCC. There are contract agencies all over Europe hiring pilots on both short and long term contract with various charter airlines who are in turn doing wet leases with other airlines. The relationships can get quite complicated at times. So when it comes to the idea of not being directly employed with an airline, many European pilots are far more used to that type of arrangement. So while the Norwegian deal may seem like it is shockingly underhanded and shady, it is an arrangement that is not that different than many others in Europe. Which may explain that the outrage over Norwegian is not nearly as high in Europe as it is in the States.
Following up with that, I have spoken with several Norwegian 787 pilots and every single one of them is quite happy. They all say they are treated well and the flying is very nice. There has been nothing shady with the contract. The same cannot be said on the 737 side of the operation. One of my neighbours is an A330/A340 captain with SAS and he is going to take an early retirement to go fly the 787 for Norwegian.
Lastly, regarding the EASA ATPL. I just completed the conversion process in July from my FAA certificates. While it may seem daunting, it is quite doable for most average people (I have never been accused of being a rocket scientist and I made it through just fine). The G- registered option with only two exams has gone away. There are no more short cuts and to get an EASA license you will have to do all 14 exams. Experienced pilots are exempt from the requirement to do a formal ground school and as such you can self certify your readiness for the exams. Personally I bought the Bristol Ground School Digital ATPL program and went through that, supplementing it with a question bank. While officially the question bank is not exact like the Gleim books with the FAA, they are VERY close and the vast majority of them end up being the exact same questions you get on the exams. So between the two resources I was able to get the exams passed in four exam sessions. The medical is extensive, but not insurmountable. Actually if you already posses an ICAO first class medical, your initial exam is actually done to renewal standards. I am not in the best of shape and I had zero issues with the medical. Basically if you do not have high blood pressure, have vision correctable to 20/20, and no history of illnesses or medical problems, passing should not be a concern. The UK has the best laid out information for converting the licenses, and at the very least I think they are the best place for doing the exams. But I have heard the Irish authority is easy to work with as well and I used the Danish authorities and found them to be easy to work with too. Many pilots I know in Europe have had their state of license issue changed to Iceland because they are very accommodating and have the lowest fees in EASA. State of license issue does not matter, any EASA license can operate any EASA registered airplane, regardless of country. Some airlines want you to change your license to their own country (easyJet does this), but this is because it makes their paperwork easier when doing the LPC.
Anyway that is a little bit of the view as I see it from the other side of the pond. I am not going to offer any opinions regarding Norwegian with regards to "should they be allowed to operate?" or "are they a threat to the career?" type of questions. But I do know a few guys working for Norwegian on both the 787 and 737 fleets, I do live in Europe, and I have recently done the EASA conversion, so hopefully I can add a little bit of information for those who are interested.
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