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Well I joined these forums some time ago and never formally introduced myself... My name is Dan, I turn 24 next month, I work in IT and make a lower middle class salary... (Yes it's a cubicle, and yes that does bother me.) I have my 2 year degree and my PPL-ASEL with about 51 hours to date... (I had to take 11 months off due to financial reasons) I also have been battling the FAA to get a restriction lifted from my certificate and I did pass the FALANT test in order to do so. I have no kids, and no wife. Just 2 parents, a brother, and a casual girlfriend whom all I enjoy very much. No debt as of now either, just got done paying for last years PPL. I do want to fly for a living in some way, whether it be for an airline or 135... I like the idea of having more than 2 days off in a row, and some weekdays off (every time I try to run errands, I can't because everything is always closed when I get off work... It would be nice to not have to use precious vaca time to do these kinds of things, not to mention the bars are better on later in the week weeknights... Fri's and Sat's are amateur nights.) I guess my main motivating factor to get a job flying is that I want to fly more and it costs too much as a weekend warrior VFR pilot. I love flying, and I loved the training... The most memorable time was when I was with one of my instructors doing night and simulated instrument flying. It was peaceful and beautiful outside in smooth air, the lights (outside, and the panel) were mesmerizing and life seemed perfect. (No that wasn't from hypoxia; we were only at 3500 feet ) Needless to say I nailed the required 10 night landings with no problem. This 172SP had the outboard wing lights as well which made it easier to see the pavement at night... I remember heading home loving what I had just accomplished that night. I have read some things skyhigh posted and I must admit, they were very depressing. But I'm in this thing for actually flying, heck sometimes I even drive out to PHL with a handheld VHF and park the car on just beyond 27L's overrun to watch the jets and occasional dash 8 fly over while listening to tower/pilots... He seems to have had a rough time and the family part before "making it" surely could change most people’s perspectives... I know some say he could have stayed at Horizon, etc but this isn't about him... Just the fact that I read that negative thread. I already have an idea about how most people here (or the most common posters rather) feel about ATP or other similar schools, but I am open to any suggestions. I am thinking about continuing all of my training at the FBO where I got my PPL. (Of course thru this I won't get all of that multi time, but they do have one there with an MEI working as well...) Anyways, does anyone have any recommendations as to what route I should take? Keep the job and train at night / weekends? Try to keep debt as low as possible, or take out loan and concentrate strictly on training without having to work full time, etc? Thanks all...
You have to ask yourself if you were in Skyhigh's shoes, career wise, what would you do. If he stayed at Horizon, he'd probably be working about half the month making nearly 100K as a 12th year Capt. For him, that wasn't good enough. Would it be for you? cause that could be as far as you get. No guarantees in this biz.
The good news is you already have a decent career outside of aviation. I'd assume you could go back if things don't work out or you weren't satisfied.
To answer your question, I wouldn't quit your day job to go into this full time right now. Take your time and stay out of debt as much as possible. Get your CFI and instruct on the side to build time. If you get up to 1200 total, you could get a 135 freight job with little ME time.
Stay single and stay flexible. When you do get into the job market, you want to be able to go where ever the jobs are.
__________________
Go here to see how I became a UPS pilot:
You have to ask yourself if you were in Skyhigh's shoes, career wise, what would you do. If he stayed at Horizon, he'd probably be working about half the month making nearly 100K as a 12th year Capt. For him, that wasn't good enough. Would it be for you? cause that could be as far as you get. No guarantees in this biz.
The good news is you already have a decent career outside of aviation. I'd assume you could go back if things don't work out or you weren't satisfied.
To answer your question, I wouldn't quit your day job to go into this full time right now. Take your time and stay out of debt as much as possible. Get your CFI and instruct on the side to build time. If you get up to 1200 total, you could get a 135 freight job with little ME time.
Stay single and stay flexible. When you do get into the job market, you want to be able to go where ever the jobs are.
Would 100K be good enough for me? Hell I thought I'd top out at maybe half that growing up. This would be luxury living for me considering my blue collar upbringing. I'd be more than happy to be the captain of a Dash 8 (esp the 400! I love that plane.) for the majority of my career. 100K a year? Man I'd be on top of the world with that. And to work half the month... I work 5 dull days a week now and it seems like I never get a break. That's 22.1 days per month. Averaging 200 hrs per month NOT including my commute. (One way: 15 minute car ride (traffic permitting), 15 min train ride, 10 min walk) Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy IT, technology, solving problems, and adding/updating infrastructure, etc... but sometimes the corporate politics and hardcore nepotism get on my nerves... I know these things exist everywhere, but being under the same roof all day every day with it is aging me. Plus my heart really isn't in it like it is in flying. For me, this job is just a means to an end (Not the worst of things, but considering that I have the power to do better for myself...) I happen to be good at fixing computers and did a lot of gaming as a teen which is what got me into this field... Just something I happen to be good at. No guarantees in my business either, they are yearly turning my job more into "providing excellent customer service" (at the expense of efficiency and productivity) ((a.k.a. kissing the right peoples asses and playing small political games...)) than actually building better networks and technical things like that... It's funny because people that don't know how to use their own wireless networks actually get "Work from home" privileges and they can't even connect half the time, yet the IT people that actually CAN work from home and are the best candidates to do so would never get such a privilege. We are seen as "overhead" unfortunately in most corporate eyes when they have no idea. Bottom of the totem pole. Ok enough *****ing out of me. Just wanted to make sure everyone see's that other jobs can suck even more despite the hard times of the airline industry, etc...
And yes, I could always go back to this career if something were to happen to my flying career. I could also do something outside of the office and be a contractor for Verizon (fiber service, not cell phones) or something like that, so there is always a way for me to provide for myself and others if needed...
Another question about where the jobs are... Luckily I live in Philly. Not the best place in most eyes, but it's home to me, and I love to hate it. It also happens to have KPHL close by, with LGA, JFK, and EWR not more than a 30 minute flight away as well. Even if my domicile was somewhere else, would I still be able to live here with my friends and fam? What are the dependencies on where you can live? As far as the 4 yr degree thing goes... I plan on doing the USVC online after I get my ratings. Lower cost and you get credit for ratings... (Another box checked)
So the FBO is looking like a good plan right now to me...
Thanks for your response; I look forward to learning more from you...
"would I still be able to live here with my friends and fam?"
Yeah, but you'd lose days off to the commute. That's what sets many people off to saying the flying job sucks. Commuting half way across the country. The closer to Philly you can be I think the better your QOL will be.
I just did a 3 day Philly layover. We stay downtown and I discovered a couple of brewerys. One was the Nodding Head and the other I can't remember the name of but it was near old town, by the river. Nice place. I walked across the bridge and went on the USS New Jersey tour. Another cool thing to do.
__________________
Go here to see how I became a UPS pilot:
To answer your question, I wouldn't quit your day job to go into this full time right now. Take your time and stay out of debt as much as possible. Get your CFI and instruct on the side to build time. If you get up to 1200 total, you could get a 135 freight job with little ME time.
Stay single and stay flexible. When you do get into the job market, you want to be able to go where ever the jobs are.
Good advice. Don't go into debt and keep your day job. The best thing to do is stay single and you'll not have the worries that come with choosing your priorities.
Now the $100,000 captain's salary? I wouldn't worry about that. It'll be awhile before you see that kind of money. Think $5-600 paychecks every two weeks your first year. Time off? Yeah, most regionals do 10-12 off for newhires. Thats not including commuting time. Put in a commute and your home a whopping 8 days a month in your own bed! Nothing like not unpacking your bags after you get home after 4-5 day trip just to repack to leave again in a day or two. All for the pleasure of flying a RJ at around $24,000 a yr.
You mentioned your commute, but bro thats nothing compared to airline commuters. Think packing your bags every week, driving to the airport 15min, waiting for my flight to work 45min, flight to work 3.5hrs(without any Wx or maintenance delays), waiting for the airport shuttle 20-45min. Keep in mind this is if you don't get bumped by anyone else out of the jumpseat. And that is a short flight compared to what some of the guys I know do(think 5-6 hr flight time)...
If you survive all the mess that comes with being a professional pilot(low low pay, not being home, not seeing family and friends, missed holidays, furloughs, displacements, etc) you'll be in a better position with some seniority and get a better schedule. But, remember people don't just slide into a Capt slot making a huge amount of money without working hard and paying their dues(and throw in a some luck) for years. But it can be done...
"would I still be able to live here with my friends and fam?"
Yeah, but you'd lose days off to the commute. That's what sets many people off to saying the flying job sucks. Commuting half way across the country. The closer to Philly you can be I think the better your QOL will be.
I just did a 3 day Philly layover. We stay downtown and I discovered a couple of brewerys. One was the Nodding Head and the other I can't remember the name of but it was near old town, by the river. Nice place. I walked across the bridge and went on the USS New Jersey tour. Another cool thing to do.
Aww man, on Sansom street? I work right near there and go drinking in the area all of the time. I work at the Bellevue on Broad and Walnut, but never went to the Nodding Head brewpub yet, I'll check it out now that you mentioned it tho... They get you guys rooms in center city??? I know a lot of good spots in CC, if you are ever going to be drinking/having dinner in the area, you should def let me know!
Yeah, Sansom. I found it doing a mapquest search for brewpubs. We stay at the Courtyard Marriot and it was an easy walk. I'll track you down if I get out that way again. The Nodding Head had some killer Jambalaya, you just can't get Jambalaya like that west of the Mississippi.
__________________
Go here to see how I became a UPS pilot:
Good advice. Don't go into debt and keep your day job. The best thing to do is stay single and you'll not have the worries that come with choosing your priorities.
Now the $100,000 captain's salary? I wouldn't worry about that. It'll be awhile before you see that kind of money. Think $5-600 paychecks every two weeks your first year. Time off? Yeah, most regionals do 10-12 off for newhires. Thats not including commuting time. Put in a commute and your home a whopping 8 days a month in your own bed! Nothing like not unpacking your bags after you get home after 4-5 day trip just to repack to leave again in a day or two. All for the pleasure of flying a RJ at around $24,000 a yr.
You mentioned your commute, but bro thats nothing compared to airline commuters. Think packing your bags every week, driving to the airport 15min, waiting for my flight to work 45min, flight to work 3.5hrs(without any Wx or maintenance delays), waiting for the airport shuttle 20-45min. Keep in mind this is if you don't get bumped by anyone else out of the jumpseat. And that is a short flight compared to what some of the guys I know do(think 5-6 hr flight time)...
If you survive all the mess that comes with being a professional pilot(low low pay, not being home, not seeing family and friends, missed holidays, furloughs, displacements, etc) you'll be in a better position with some seniority and get a better schedule. But, remember people don't just slide into a Capt slot making a huge amount of money without working hard and paying their dues(and throw in a some luck) for years. But it can be done...
About the commute... I'm not saying it is that bad in any way, just trying to put things into perspective for the sake of comparison... Just to see how the life of an office worker compares to an airline pilot, etc... Wouldn't I have somewhat of a choice as to where my domicile is? I have a good amount of class B and class C airports in my general area, so I doubt I'd have to worry about a 5 hour commute that often? And I understand that it will take me at least a few years to make a living salary, but it seems like the long-term payoff/job description is way better than being an office slave sitting under fluorescent soul draining lights for the next 50 years... But I guess I can make that assertion when I've been on both sides of the grass.
Sorry if I sounded more harsh than I intended(its the internet ya' know). More than likely I would(when u reach that point) try and choose a company that has a junior base near your home. Good example would be Eagle, I know guys who are getting displaced out of their bases because of closures and now have to commute halfway across the country. This is after having chosen their bases during groundschool. As long as you know that is a possibility and can live with those unknowns you'll be fine. Like DE said, stay single and moving around will not be a problem.
And with the way the industry is going commutes are getting worse, not better. It took me over 8 hours on one commute and it usually like I mentioned takes 5 hours. And I live in the LA basin which has aloooot of B,C airports. Can you tell I hate commuting? LOL
It sounds like you planning ahead and looking at both the positives and negatives and preparing. You'll do fine if you keep this up and you will end up flying if you have that mentality.
Oh yeah, start preparing the GF for the airline lifestyle now so she can either stay or go and thats one thing you won't have to deal with once you start flying for a living.
Sorry if I sounded more harsh than I intended(its the internet ya' know). More than likely I would(when u reach that point) try and choose a company that has a junior base near your home. Good example would be Eagle, I know guys who are getting displaced out of their bases because of closures and now have to commute halfway across the country. This is after having chosen their bases during groundschool. As long as you know that is a possibility and can live with those unknowns you'll be fine. Like DE said, stay single and moving around will not be a problem.
And with the way the industry is going commutes are getting worse, not better. It took me over 8 hours on one commute and it usually like I mentioned takes 5 hours. And I live in the LA basin which has aloooot of B,C airports. Can you tell I hate commuting? LOL
It sounds like you planning ahead and looking at both the positives and negatives and preparing. You'll do fine if you keep this up and you will end up flying if you have that mentality.
Oh yeah, start preparing the GF for the airline lifestyle now so she can either stay or go and thats one thing you won't have to deal with once you start flying for a living.
Oh no, I didn't take it as harsh at all... (Although I know the internet can be misleading...) As a matter of fact, I really appreciate your info. Thanks again! And planning ahead is an understatement, lol... I've been reading about the lifestyle, daily life journals, pros, cons, you name it; for over 3 years now... I understand that commuting can probably be a royal pain in the ass, but then again, so is Bill Lumburg.
About the GF, she is completely behind me on this. She would get upset if I DIDN'T try to accomplish my goal. Did I mention the fact that she was the one that found the Doctor with the FALANT test for me after I have been looking (unsuccessfully) for over a year? lol...
Introduction/Advice
) Needless to say I nailed the required 10 night landings with no problem. This 172SP had the outboard wing lights as well which made it easier to see the pavement at night... I remember heading home loving what I had just accomplished that night. I have read some things skyhigh posted and I must admit, they were very depressing. But I'm in this thing for actually flying, heck sometimes I even drive out to PHL with a handheld VHF and park the car on just beyond 27L's overrun to watch the jets and occasional dash 8 fly over while listening to tower/pilots... He seems to have had a rough time and the family part before "making it" surely could change most people’s perspectives... I know some say he could have stayed at Horizon, etc but this isn't about him... Just the fact that I read that negative thread. I already have an idea about how most people here (or the most common posters rather) feel about ATP or other similar schools, but I am open to any suggestions. I am thinking about continuing all of my training at the FBO where I got my PPL. (Of course thru this I won't get all of that multi time, but they do have one there with an MEI working as well...) Anyways, does anyone have any recommendations as to what route I should take? Keep the job and train at night / weekends? Try to keep debt as low as possible, or take out loan and concentrate strictly on training without having to work full time, etc? Thanks all...
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