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Old 06-06-2008, 05:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default For Both NWA and DAL Guys

When the merger goes thru and the pay and SL is finally formalized, there are going to be guys that are very satisfied. However, a good percentage of guys from both NWA AND DELTA are going to get the shaft, BIG TIME. It could be NWA with no pay parity or it could be DAL guys on seniority issues. What ever it is, it will hit both sides. The fact remains, somebody from BOTH sides is going to be awfully disappointed (Polite way of being PO'd)

I am asking this question to both NWA and DELTA pilots; If you are on the "shafted" list, would you be willing to quit ALPA? And, tell Prater WHY!

I'm not necessarily advocating dumping ALPA. But, so far, I have seen ZILCH from ALPA National. Maybe they need a wake-up call! Prater and his cronies read this website! All they have to do is review the USAIR mess. Do they really want another debacle?
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRWDbyMGMT View Post
I am asking this question to both NWA and DELTA pilots; If you are on the "shafted" list, would you be willing to quit ALPA? And, tell Prater WHY!
I think both the NW and DL pilots will for the most part be OK with the end result. Notice I didn't say happy, but there is a realization that we aren't going to get everything we want and that as long as the results aren't too lopsided, will accept the final JPWA and SLI. We're big boys and girls, just because you don't get things your way, doesn't mean you take your ball and go crying home to Mama. Binding arbitration means just that.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think both the NW and DL pilots will for the most part be OK with the end result. Notice I didn't say happy, but there is a realization that we aren't going to get everything we want and that as long as the results aren't too lopsided, will accept the final JPWA and SLI. We're big boys and girls, just because you don't get things your way, doesn't mean you take your ball and go crying home to Mama. Binding arbitration means just that.
Agreed. I don't think much of ALPA, and Prater is giving new meaning to the phrase "slow starter", but the results will be the work of DALPA and NWALPA not ALPA national.

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Old 06-06-2008, 06:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I don't think it'd make any logical sense to quit ALPA just because I didn't like the outcome of a seniority integration...seems short-sighted and childish. Especially when National ALPA doesn't actually have anything to do with seniority integration other than supplying a book with integration guidelines. Each pilot group prepares for its own merger negotiations. We raise our own money, have our own advisers, negotiators, etc.

I appreciate having access to ALPA attorneys, the Aero Medical department, alternative insurance products, etc... access to experienced, professional people that have been representing pilots and helping pilots for many years. Also as our industry becomes more global, I think it behooves us to remain under a large umbrella organization in conjunction with IFALPA.

That's not to say I agree with everything they do (forgiving certain scabs, age 65, etc.) but one organization is not going to please 60,000 type-A personalities.

I could, however, go without the useless monthly comic book... a PDF would be just fine!
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't think it'd make any logical sense to quit ALPA just because I didn't like the outcome of a seniority integration...seems short-sighted and childish. Especially when National ALPA doesn't actually have anything to do with seniority integration other than supplying a book with integration guidelines. Each pilot group prepares for its own merger negotiations. We raise our own money, have our own advisers, negotiators, etc.

I appreciate having access to ALPA attorneys, the Aero Medical department, alternative insurance products, etc... access to experienced, professional people that have been representing pilots and helping pilots for many years. Also as our industry becomes more global, I think it behooves us to remain under a large umbrella organization in conjunction with IFALPA.

That's not to say I agree with everything they do (forgiving certain scabs, age 65, etc.) but one organization is not going to please 60,000 type-A personalities.

I could, however, go without the useless monthly comic book... a PDF would be just fine!
Well said!
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Agreed. I don't think much of ALPA, and Prater is giving new meaning to the phrase "slow starter", but the results will be the work of DALPA and NWALPA not ALPA national.

Carl
It looks like you are talking about 3 different unions! You make my point exactly! If ALPA is a NATIONAL union, protecting the interests of ALL members from ALL ALPA carriers, Don't you think there ought to be some LEADERSHIP from ALPA NATIONAL in a merger that will effect 15-20% if it's overall membership? NWALPA and DALPA are "chapters" of the greater NATIONAL ALPA, not independent unions!!! ALPA NATIONAL doesn't appear to be doing squat!

If you are happy with totally independent carrier unions, as you stated, then why are we paying dues to a national organization that stands on the sidelines?
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Old 06-07-2008, 02:55 AM   #7 (permalink)
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It would not be Pratter's fault. Our MEC's did the negotiation, not him of National. Like with many things you just need to go to your MEC Level to place the blame.
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:07 AM   #8 (permalink)
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NWALPA and DALPA are "chapters" of the greater NATIONAL ALPA, not independent unions!!! ALPA NATIONAL doesn't appear to be doing squat!

If you are happy with totally independent carrier unions, as you stated, then why are we paying dues to a national organization that stands on the sidelines?
I can't imagine pilots belonging to a union where direction came down from the national level. Each airlines MEC operates independently, and rightly so. Do you really want John Prater, or anyone in Herndon, telling you how things are going to be?

I'm not sure how you want national involved in our current situation, but I prefer that they stay out of it and let us work it out. If that's considered not "doing squat", then so be it.

I want the national organization for it's support functions: the Air Safety, Pro Standards, Jumpseat, Aeromedical, and Security committees are just a few examples. Being part of a large organization gives you a louder voice on Capital Hill, as well. It's worth the extra dues, IMO.
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:22 AM   #9 (permalink)
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As much as I hate ALPA, I wouldn't support leaving. I would definitely support tossing Prater, but that is over a number of things. In the end ALPA's benefits far outweigh its negatives. There are a large group of pilots here that would love to toss them, but they are in the minority by a large percent.
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Old 06-07-2008, 06:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRWDbyMGMT View Post
I am asking this question to both NWA and DELTA pilots; If you are on the "shafted" list, would you be willing to quit ALPA? And, tell Prater WHY!

I'm not necessarily advocating dumping ALPA. But, so far, I have seen ZILCH from ALPA National. Maybe they need a wake-up call! Prater and his cronies read this website! All they have to do is review the USAIR mess. Do they really want another debacle?
So you're saying that there is way to merge that makes everyone happy, but if it doesn't go down that way, we should "quit ALPA and tell Prater why?"

I'm all ears for this magical plan:

Go ahead, I have my pen and paper ready.
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