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Old 07-02-2006, 08:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Merged CAL/UAL seniority lists

For information only, here is a merged seniority list for a Date of Hire integration of the UAL and CAL lists. This is for information only, please read the disclaimer on the file download.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/o...Itemid,85.html

We're looking for the AMR, NWA, and DAL Lists, please PM me if you'd like to submit your seniority list. All lists are de-identified [before being published here] with names and employee numbers removed.

Last edited by HSLD; 07-02-2006 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 07-02-2006, 09:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Thanks for the work. No way! "Career expectation" is way too disparate between the 2 groups to think DOH will work. As a former AAA guy, I know this from the AWA merger.
I flew 4 legs to get home yesterday and heard from a lot of po'd passengers. This stands to be the worst Summer ever for the American flying public. I expect the congressional airline hearings from '01 to continue before the "platinum parachute merger machine" runs smoothly again.... I hope. We owe the pax better than this.
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Old 07-02-2006, 09:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I coudn't agree more, like I said it's for info only and I hope it never happens as those two groups would both lose IMO.
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Old 07-02-2006, 05:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSLD
For information only, here is a merged seniority list for a Date of Hire integration of the UAL and CAL lists. This is for information only, please read the disclaimer on the file download.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/o...Itemid,85.html

We're looking for the AMR, NWA, and DAL Lists, please PM me if you'd like to submit your seniority list. All lists are de-identified [before being published here] with names and employee numbers removed.


Did I miss something? Is this a real possibility?
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Old 07-02-2006, 06:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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A merger will not be a simple DOH mix of pilots. There are protections in an ALPA merger. For example: a UAL pilot that is furloughed could be 10 years senior to a CAL pilot that is not furloughed. The CAL pilot would not lose his job or be furloughed. He is protected. You'll have to dig into the ALPA merger stuff. Bring your lawyer to help you interpret it.
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Old 07-02-2006, 06:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecav8r
Did I miss something? Is this a real possibility?
I don't think you missed anything - although I guess anything is possible. I'm not aware of any plans for UAUA or CAL to merge with any other carrier(s). This merged list was produced for info only based on some interest from another pilot, I wouldn't read anything into it. As mentioned, mergers rarely go by straight DOH.

This is simply an exercise in age and DOH distribution at each airline.
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Old 07-02-2006, 07:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottopilot
A merger will not be a simple DOH mix of pilots. There are protections in an ALPA merger. For example: a UAL pilot that is furloughed could be 10 years senior to a CAL pilot that is not furloughed. The CAL pilot would not lose his job or be furloughed. He is protected. You'll have to dig into the ALPA merger stuff. Bring your lawyer to help you interpret it.
That is pure speculation on your part. Noone knows what would happen if UAL/CAL decided to merge.

As for ALPA, don't count on them for any legal, financial or political support whatsoever. You and your pilot group will be on your own, trust me. I have first-hand experience with that.
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Old 07-02-2006, 08:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B757200ER
As for ALPA, don't count on them for any legal, financial or political support whatsoever. You and your pilot group will be on your own, trust me. I have first-hand experience with that.
Correct........ALPA National will not take sides in a Merger between 2 ALPA represented Pilot groups that are merging....It would be a Conflict of Interest.....Just look at USAir (AAA) and former AmericaWest. It is and will be between the 2 merging MECs and the Arbitrator.

The Furloughed USAir Pilots with Dates of Hire back to 1987....(in my opinion)will not be Senior to an America WEST Capt with a 1989 Date of hire.

Almost all ALPA to ALPA mergers go to a nuetral Arbitrators.......Both sides present their cases to the Arbitrator and make their arguments and present their merger formulas. The Nuetral Arbitrator makes a binding decision on how the merger integration goes...............it becomes LAW.
Then both former groups sit in the cockpits of merged airframes and argue/B*tch for the rest of their careers on how they each got Scr**ed by the other side. Often there are some pretty hard feelings that only go away with retirement. Been down that road.....................

If a NON-ALPA carrier merges with a ALPA represented carrier, then ALPA National will provide all the Legal assistance needed.

TWA and AMR is one example where that did not really happen. There are many stories as to why. I do not know myself as I was not involved. I was told it was due to the fact that with TWA in Bankruptcy, the TWA Pilots had to make a choice. Take their chances with the company's survival on it's own..........or take a agree to void their contracts SCOPE/Successorship clause and take their chances with APA doing a fair integration.
Fair is in the eyes of the beholder. I have no dog in that fight, but Almost all of the Former TWA pilots are furloughed or close to it.
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Old 07-02-2006, 11:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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U never know. U can get scr@@wed. It just takes a case of wine or more. Thank u Mr. Kellar
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Old 07-03-2006, 07:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
It just takes a case of wine
Is that wine....or whine?
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