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I Train out here at Lubbock......and here is what i was told.
There was a cell out off the end of our usually active south runway 17R. My buddy got in right before the T-1 in a Cirrus and experienced pretty harsh wind shear. He got it on the ground, and relayed this information to the tower. Apparently the T-1 was out shooting some approaches, or something to that effect and caught a ROUGH downdraft off of the cell and made contact about 40 yards shy of the threshold.
I was not there when it happened, but i saw the aircraft sitting right off the runway the next day when i went to shoot some approaches.
I hate to see stuff like that, i hope nobody gets court marshaled or looses their pilot slot for that accident.
I hate to see stuff like that, i hope nobody gets court marshaled or looses their pilot slot for that accident.
I don't think that's how it works. Unless they were sloppy drunk or something. I'm no safety guy, but I think usually there is a safety board that determines the cause of the mishap followed by a flight evaluation board (FEB?) if it is determined that the pilot(s) acted in an irresponsible manner. But again, I'm no safety guy.
There are two boards: SIB (Safety board) just to find out what happened and make sure it doesn't happen again. No legal "teeth," statement's can't be used to determine punishment.
AIB (Accident investigation board) is the unfriendly investigation, i.e., bring a lawyer. The results of this board, I believe, determine whether there will be any UCMJ action, non-judicial punishment, FEB (flying evaluation board to take their wings if warranted), etc...there does not necessarily have to be any punishment handed down, but I understand it is not a pleasant experience for anyone who is being interviewed, which will be a lot of people.
There are two boards: SIB (Safety board) just to find out what happened and make sure it doesn't happen again. No legal "teeth," statement's can't be used to determine punishment.
AIB (Accident investigation board) is the unfriendly investigation, i.e., bring a lawyer. The results of this board, I believe, determine whether there will be any UCMJ action, non-judicial punishment, FEB (flying evaluation board to take their wings if warranted), etc...there does not necessarily have to be any punishment handed down, but I understand it is not a pleasant experience for anyone who is being interviewed, which will be a lot of people.
Pretty much all correct. A SIB finds causal factors. No retribution except if something criminal is found out. The AIB can use the same info etc to determine if the Pilots did something punishable. This is pretty rare. Usually just an FEB and returned to duty. It sounds like these guys did nothing wrong. Just bad WX and maybe couldn't get anywhere else. The AF expects to crash planes. We just don't expect drunks, cowboys, etc to do it.
Pretty much all correct. A SIB finds causal factors. No retribution except if something criminal is found out. The AIB can use the same info etc to determine if the Pilots did something punishable. This is pretty rare. Usually just an FEB and returned to duty. It sounds like these guys did nothing wrong. Just bad WX and maybe couldn't get anywhere else. The AF expects to crash planes. We just don't expect drunks, cowboys, etc to do it.
If a SIB finds anything criminal the SIB is over and everything goes to the AIB.
The AIB gets the factual information from the SIB, but nothing privleged. You have to talk to a SIB, under privlege, not necessarily to an AIB.
Sometimes SIBs and AIBs reach different conclusions. Sometimes wildly different.
If a SIB finds anything criminal the SIB is over and everything goes to the AIB.
The AIB gets the factual information from the SIB, but nothing privleged. You have to talk to a SIB, under privlege, not necessarily to an AIB.
Sometimes SIBs and AIBs reach different conclusions. Sometimes wildly different.
In the USN/USMC we actually have three different boards that would meet in the above circumstances.
Our Aircraft Mishap Board (AMB) = your SIB
Our FNAEB/FFPB = your AIB (around 5 different outcomes ranging from nothing to losing your wings)
But then we also have the purely legal board (usually conducted by one officer) the JAGMAN which is the legal investigation that will figure out and protect mainly against claims against the gov't - but which could also find you MISCONDUCT/NOT IN THE LINE OF DUTY worst case.
Does the AF have anything like this or would that be determined by the AIB?
The SIB is staffed by safety folks and is there purely to prevent future mishaps. That's why they (and only them) can offer you privledge. Those privledged statements are never released to an AIB, the media, or can be used for punitive action. AIB's are a different story--call your lawyer and be careful.
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