USAF Flight-Surgeon/Aerospace Medicine
06-17-2009, 07:22 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 2
USAF Flight-Surgeon/Aerospace Medicine
Hey,
I am preparing to enter medical school in the near future and have strongly considered the HPSP. In the past I was and continue to be extremely interested in flying, specifically for the military. I was researching some potential careers in the USAF and came across the Aerospace Physician/Flight surgeon program. I have been trying to find more information on this program but a lot of it seems to be hearsay or at the very least is scattered across many websites. I am sorry if these have been answered before but I compiled a few questions that I was looking for answer for. Hopefully someone can help.
What I know about the program is that generally one graduates medical school, completes a one year internship, and then applies for the flight-surgeon program at which point they undergo clinical training and a flight familiarization program. Furthermore, I understand that one then enters a 3 year training program in occupational/preventive medicine, public health, and aerospace medicine. I know that the main responsibilities are supposed to be split 50/50 between clinical practice and squadron duties that include meetings, training, flying, support, etc.
1. I was first curious as to what the minimum commitment length was for a flight-surgeon?
2. Can you complete a civilian residency and then apply for the flight-surgeon program instead of just doing a 1 year internship? If so do I still have to do the 3 year training program (internal/occupational/aerospace medicine)?
3. How much flight time does on actually get? I know that a flight-surgeon will often fly as a passenger and will not be pilot-in-command, but how often, if ever can a flight-surgeon be the pilot-in-command?
4. Does entering the program with a civilian pilot’s certificate change anything?
5. Is there a maximum age for entry?
6. What is the entry-level compensation/pay grade for one just graduating medical school? For one who completed a civilian residency? Does it matter?
7. Is it the prominent path to becoming astronaut, which is what I have read? This is more out of curiosity.
8. What are the physical requirements and standards for acceptance?
9. Can one who has completed the HPSP then enter the flight surgeons program? If so what would the commitment length be, both active and reserve?
10. Are flight surgeons like officer physicians, fast-tracked for advancement?
11. What are the differences for reserve flight surgeons?
I know the post is very long and I appreciate any input that one can give.
Thanks
I am preparing to enter medical school in the near future and have strongly considered the HPSP. In the past I was and continue to be extremely interested in flying, specifically for the military. I was researching some potential careers in the USAF and came across the Aerospace Physician/Flight surgeon program. I have been trying to find more information on this program but a lot of it seems to be hearsay or at the very least is scattered across many websites. I am sorry if these have been answered before but I compiled a few questions that I was looking for answer for. Hopefully someone can help.
What I know about the program is that generally one graduates medical school, completes a one year internship, and then applies for the flight-surgeon program at which point they undergo clinical training and a flight familiarization program. Furthermore, I understand that one then enters a 3 year training program in occupational/preventive medicine, public health, and aerospace medicine. I know that the main responsibilities are supposed to be split 50/50 between clinical practice and squadron duties that include meetings, training, flying, support, etc.
1. I was first curious as to what the minimum commitment length was for a flight-surgeon?
2. Can you complete a civilian residency and then apply for the flight-surgeon program instead of just doing a 1 year internship? If so do I still have to do the 3 year training program (internal/occupational/aerospace medicine)?
3. How much flight time does on actually get? I know that a flight-surgeon will often fly as a passenger and will not be pilot-in-command, but how often, if ever can a flight-surgeon be the pilot-in-command?
4. Does entering the program with a civilian pilot’s certificate change anything?
5. Is there a maximum age for entry?
6. What is the entry-level compensation/pay grade for one just graduating medical school? For one who completed a civilian residency? Does it matter?
7. Is it the prominent path to becoming astronaut, which is what I have read? This is more out of curiosity.
8. What are the physical requirements and standards for acceptance?
9. Can one who has completed the HPSP then enter the flight surgeons program? If so what would the commitment length be, both active and reserve?
10. Are flight surgeons like officer physicians, fast-tracked for advancement?
11. What are the differences for reserve flight surgeons?
I know the post is very long and I appreciate any input that one can give.
Thanks
06-18-2009, 01:41 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: DA-40
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by sstra21759
Hey,
I am preparing to enter medical school in the near future and have strongly considered the HPSP. In the past I was and continue to be extremely interested in flying, specifically for the military. I was researching some potential careers in the USAF and came across the Aerospace Physician/Flight surgeon program. I have been trying to find more information on this program but a lot of it seems to be hearsay or at the very least is scattered across many websites. I am sorry if these have been answered before but I compiled a few questions that I was looking for answer for. Hopefully someone can help.
What I know about the program is that generally one graduates medical school, completes a one year internship, and then applies for the flight-surgeon program at which point they undergo clinical training and a flight familiarization program. This is generally accurate. You can enter the AF and do the internship as an officer, or you can complete your internship as a civilian and enter the AF after the internship. Then, after entering the AF, there is an additional 7 week program at Brooks AFB in San Antonio[at least it used to be] where the docs take a survival course like the pilots, study the aviation environment, and learn about the effects of flying on the air crews. Flight surgeons learn and master all aspects of the flying environment for the air crews. They must understand all the rules for pilots and crews and the air traffic controllers so that they can give them physicals and declare them fit for duty. After a flight surgeon finishes the 7 week program, he or she is assigned to a squadron or unit. Furthermore, I understand that one then enters a 3 year training program in occupational/preventive medicine, public health, and aerospace medicine. This may or may not happen, depending on your and the AF's desires. In reality this program occurs after 2 to 3 years, or your first assignment as a Flight Surgeon. After 2 to 3 years of experience, most flight surgeons do a RAM, a Residency in Aerospace Medicine, a 3 year program. The first year is the equivalent of a Master's degree in public health. The second year concentrates on operational medicine, and the third year is an intensive study of aerospace medicine. After the program, the flight surgeon is certified to sit on the boards for both operational medicine and aerospace medicine. Usually, the flight surgeon will be moving more into administration at this point, such as becoming a squadron commander. Just a side note-- some Flight Surgeons opt to attend other residency programs instead of the RAM. A buddy of mine, who was a Flight Surgeon, actually went to General and Heart Surgery residency followed by a Heart Surgery fellowship to Duke University. It was a 5 year total program and he "owed" the AF a year for every year of training--ie serve as a heart surgeon for 5 years. During the fellowship, he was getting paid as a Major, with flight pay, and all the board and specialty pays.
I know that the main responsibilities are supposed to be split 50/50 between clinical practice and squadron duties that include meetings, training, flying, support, etc.Actually, depending on the size of the base/hospital, it is more like 80 percent clinical and 20 percent everything else. As you gain rank and experience, you'll be flight commander etc.
1. I was first curious as to what the minimum commitment length was for a flight-surgeon? It depends. If you are HPSP, as you say you want--- it is a one year commitment for each year they pay for med school.... ie 4 years. If you want to become a Lieutenant and be on active duty AND have the AF pay for med school, all the while being paid as a Lt, then you owe 7 years. There are other commitments based on whether they pay for residencies, internships, etc... but basically, it's 4 years on active duty minimum.
2. Can you complete a civilian residency and then apply for the flight-surgeon program instead of just doing a 1 year internship? Yes, if you apply and are approvedIf so do I still have to do the 3 year training program (internal/occupational/aerospace medicine)?No, you will not be REQUIRED to do it.. but if you have another residency completed, you will probably be used in the AF in THAT specialty and not as a Flight Surgeon.
3. How much flight time does on actually get? It depends on the size of the base, flying mission and requirements. The minimum is that a Flight Surgeon must get 4 Flight Hours per month in the aircraft that is assigned to that base/squadron; but most get more time.I know that a flight-surgeon will often fly as a passenger and will not be pilot-in-command, but how often, if ever can a flight-surgeon be the pilot-in-command?Never. A Flight Surgeon will never be PIC. In fighter units, the FS will always get some "stick time" if he or she wants, but never PIC; and in heavy units, will never sit in the pilot seats. You are not a passenger. You are a crewmember and you hold a RATING of Flight Surgeon
4. Does entering the program with a civilian pilot’s certificate change anything?No. But it may get you some "street cred".
5. Is there a maximum age for entry?Age 47 but this can easily be waived
6. What is the entry-level compensation/pay grade for one just graduating medical school? You will be entered as a Captain (O-3) with medical school only with 4 years of credit. If you have completed internship--Capt with 5 years credit. You will be compensated as a Capt with over 4 years plus medical specialty pay, plus flight pay plus BAH, plus BAS, plus board specialty pay (if any).For one who completed a civilian residency? Does it matter?One year for each year of residency. Ie 4 years for med school, plus 1 year internship plus 3 years residency for a total of 7 years Service credit.
7. Is it the prominent path to becoming astronaut, which is what I have read? This is more out of curiosity.I don't know. I know a lot of Flight Surgeons, but no Flight Surgeon astronauts. If you want to do it, go for it, because of all the ones I know, none of them PURSUED becoming an astronaut.
8. What are the physical requirements and standards for acceptance?The same for any AF officer, except that you are allowed to come in at a more advanced age. Basically, meet weight and body fat standards and physical fitness standards for your age. The standards are readily available on a google search. You'd have to look at your age and waist measurements and get your potential score. It is not too difficult
9. Can one who has completed the HPSP then enter the flight surgeons program? So far, all those who want to do it have been able to.... many docs in fact most, do not want to be flight surgeons.If so what would the commitment length be, both active and reserve?4 years active for HPSP ; one year for each year of AF paid residency. Reserve commitment, I don't remember----but it's inactive reserve, so it's pretty invisible. 6 or 8 years maybe...but you don't have to train etc. basically a paperwork drill.
10. Are flight surgeons like officer physicians, fast-tracked for advancement?Flight Surgeons ARE officers, exactly like any other officers. They are not fast-tracked. Once in the AF, you compete with all other docs. However, you are "fast tracked' if you consider you enter as an O-3 with up to 10 years credit vs coming in at year 1. You are up for promotion as if you came in at year 1--- ie at year 9 or 10 you are up for Major and you may have come in with 7 years credit. Means you would be up for major within 2 years of entering active duty.
11. What are the differences for reserve flight surgeons?Can't answer that... I was never a reservist.
I know the post is very long and I appreciate any input that one can give.
Thanks
I am preparing to enter medical school in the near future and have strongly considered the HPSP. In the past I was and continue to be extremely interested in flying, specifically for the military. I was researching some potential careers in the USAF and came across the Aerospace Physician/Flight surgeon program. I have been trying to find more information on this program but a lot of it seems to be hearsay or at the very least is scattered across many websites. I am sorry if these have been answered before but I compiled a few questions that I was looking for answer for. Hopefully someone can help.
What I know about the program is that generally one graduates medical school, completes a one year internship, and then applies for the flight-surgeon program at which point they undergo clinical training and a flight familiarization program. This is generally accurate. You can enter the AF and do the internship as an officer, or you can complete your internship as a civilian and enter the AF after the internship. Then, after entering the AF, there is an additional 7 week program at Brooks AFB in San Antonio[at least it used to be] where the docs take a survival course like the pilots, study the aviation environment, and learn about the effects of flying on the air crews. Flight surgeons learn and master all aspects of the flying environment for the air crews. They must understand all the rules for pilots and crews and the air traffic controllers so that they can give them physicals and declare them fit for duty. After a flight surgeon finishes the 7 week program, he or she is assigned to a squadron or unit. Furthermore, I understand that one then enters a 3 year training program in occupational/preventive medicine, public health, and aerospace medicine. This may or may not happen, depending on your and the AF's desires. In reality this program occurs after 2 to 3 years, or your first assignment as a Flight Surgeon. After 2 to 3 years of experience, most flight surgeons do a RAM, a Residency in Aerospace Medicine, a 3 year program. The first year is the equivalent of a Master's degree in public health. The second year concentrates on operational medicine, and the third year is an intensive study of aerospace medicine. After the program, the flight surgeon is certified to sit on the boards for both operational medicine and aerospace medicine. Usually, the flight surgeon will be moving more into administration at this point, such as becoming a squadron commander. Just a side note-- some Flight Surgeons opt to attend other residency programs instead of the RAM. A buddy of mine, who was a Flight Surgeon, actually went to General and Heart Surgery residency followed by a Heart Surgery fellowship to Duke University. It was a 5 year total program and he "owed" the AF a year for every year of training--ie serve as a heart surgeon for 5 years. During the fellowship, he was getting paid as a Major, with flight pay, and all the board and specialty pays.
I know that the main responsibilities are supposed to be split 50/50 between clinical practice and squadron duties that include meetings, training, flying, support, etc.Actually, depending on the size of the base/hospital, it is more like 80 percent clinical and 20 percent everything else. As you gain rank and experience, you'll be flight commander etc.
1. I was first curious as to what the minimum commitment length was for a flight-surgeon? It depends. If you are HPSP, as you say you want--- it is a one year commitment for each year they pay for med school.... ie 4 years. If you want to become a Lieutenant and be on active duty AND have the AF pay for med school, all the while being paid as a Lt, then you owe 7 years. There are other commitments based on whether they pay for residencies, internships, etc... but basically, it's 4 years on active duty minimum.
2. Can you complete a civilian residency and then apply for the flight-surgeon program instead of just doing a 1 year internship? Yes, if you apply and are approvedIf so do I still have to do the 3 year training program (internal/occupational/aerospace medicine)?No, you will not be REQUIRED to do it.. but if you have another residency completed, you will probably be used in the AF in THAT specialty and not as a Flight Surgeon.
3. How much flight time does on actually get? It depends on the size of the base, flying mission and requirements. The minimum is that a Flight Surgeon must get 4 Flight Hours per month in the aircraft that is assigned to that base/squadron; but most get more time.I know that a flight-surgeon will often fly as a passenger and will not be pilot-in-command, but how often, if ever can a flight-surgeon be the pilot-in-command?Never. A Flight Surgeon will never be PIC. In fighter units, the FS will always get some "stick time" if he or she wants, but never PIC; and in heavy units, will never sit in the pilot seats. You are not a passenger. You are a crewmember and you hold a RATING of Flight Surgeon
4. Does entering the program with a civilian pilot’s certificate change anything?No. But it may get you some "street cred".
5. Is there a maximum age for entry?Age 47 but this can easily be waived
6. What is the entry-level compensation/pay grade for one just graduating medical school? You will be entered as a Captain (O-3) with medical school only with 4 years of credit. If you have completed internship--Capt with 5 years credit. You will be compensated as a Capt with over 4 years plus medical specialty pay, plus flight pay plus BAH, plus BAS, plus board specialty pay (if any).For one who completed a civilian residency? Does it matter?One year for each year of residency. Ie 4 years for med school, plus 1 year internship plus 3 years residency for a total of 7 years Service credit.
7. Is it the prominent path to becoming astronaut, which is what I have read? This is more out of curiosity.I don't know. I know a lot of Flight Surgeons, but no Flight Surgeon astronauts. If you want to do it, go for it, because of all the ones I know, none of them PURSUED becoming an astronaut.
8. What are the physical requirements and standards for acceptance?The same for any AF officer, except that you are allowed to come in at a more advanced age. Basically, meet weight and body fat standards and physical fitness standards for your age. The standards are readily available on a google search. You'd have to look at your age and waist measurements and get your potential score. It is not too difficult
9. Can one who has completed the HPSP then enter the flight surgeons program? So far, all those who want to do it have been able to.... many docs in fact most, do not want to be flight surgeons.If so what would the commitment length be, both active and reserve?4 years active for HPSP ; one year for each year of AF paid residency. Reserve commitment, I don't remember----but it's inactive reserve, so it's pretty invisible. 6 or 8 years maybe...but you don't have to train etc. basically a paperwork drill.
10. Are flight surgeons like officer physicians, fast-tracked for advancement?Flight Surgeons ARE officers, exactly like any other officers. They are not fast-tracked. Once in the AF, you compete with all other docs. However, you are "fast tracked' if you consider you enter as an O-3 with up to 10 years credit vs coming in at year 1. You are up for promotion as if you came in at year 1--- ie at year 9 or 10 you are up for Major and you may have come in with 7 years credit. Means you would be up for major within 2 years of entering active duty.
11. What are the differences for reserve flight surgeons?Can't answer that... I was never a reservist.
I know the post is very long and I appreciate any input that one can give.
Thanks
06-20-2009, 05:21 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: A-300 F/O
Posts: 281
There are a few doctors out there with pilot wings on their chests, but they did UPT first, got out in the days when the commitment for pilot training was much lower than it is now, did med school or dental school, and came back to the service as docs. Randolph had one about 10 years ago, who first was a proficiency only pilot in the T-37, but later became a full up T-37 PIT IP. On a TDY to Laughlin to see what it was like to fly with UPT students, he even pitched in and saw patients at the aerospace medicine clinic when they were short of flight docs.
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