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Old 10-29-2009, 10:42 AM   #21 (permalink)
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You guys are right. I meant poorly that he was more of a dog fighter while Erich Hartmann was better at ambushing his enemies. Both did shoot at very close range.

Bunk22, I don't dispute at all that there was constant over claims of victories from any side but here is something interesting I read from USAF Major Robert Tate wrote:

"Much of the debate and refusal to substantiate Marseille's combat record originates from one day of furious air combat on 1 September, 1942 in which he claimed to have destroyed 17 aircraft in three sorties. Not only did Marseille claim 17 aircraft, but he did it in a fashion that was unheard of at the time. His victims were shot out of the sky in such a rapid fashion that many Allied critics still refuse to believe Marseille's claims as fact. But it is precisely the speed and fury involved with these kills that has been the center of the Marseille debate for the past half century. For years, many British historians and militarists refused to admit that they had lost any aircraft that day in North Africa. Careful review of records however do show that the British did lose more than 17 aircraft that day, and in the area that Marseille operated. The British simply refused to believe, as many do today, that any German pilot was capable of such rapid destruction of RAF hardware."
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Old 10-29-2009, 04:02 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bubi352 View Post
You guys are right. I meant poorly that he was more of a dog fighter while Erich Hartmann was better at ambushing his enemies. Both did shoot at very close range.

Bunk22, I don't dispute at all that there was constant over claims of victories from any side but here is something interesting I read from USAF Major Robert Tate wrote:

"Much of the debate and refusal to substantiate Marseille's combat record originates from one day of furious air combat on 1 September, 1942 in which he claimed to have destroyed 17 aircraft in three sorties. Not only did Marseille claim 17 aircraft, but he did it in a fashion that was unheard of at the time. His victims were shot out of the sky in such a rapid fashion that many Allied critics still refuse to believe Marseille's claims as fact. But it is precisely the speed and fury involved with these kills that has been the center of the Marseille debate for the past half century. For years, many British historians and militarists refused to admit that they had lost any aircraft that day in North Africa. Careful review of records however do show that the British did lose more than 17 aircraft that day, and in the area that Marseille operated. The British simply refused to believe, as many do today, that any German pilot was capable of such rapid destruction of RAF hardware."
His famous day aside, looking at other days where German claims and allied losses just don't add up, days where he scored, hard to determine acutal score. He was no doubt by all accounts a dangerous man and probably would have been overall the number one guy if not for his early demise. As far as his 17 kills in one day, have to compare the actual losses vs the claims and try to piece it together. Might be impossible to do though John B Lundstrom did it for the early months of Guadacanal. Must have taken years of research. Anyone got the time?
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Old 10-29-2009, 09:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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His famous day aside, looking at other days where German claims and allied losses just don't add up, days where he scored, hard to determine acutal score. He was no doubt by all accounts a dangerous man and probably would have been overall the number one guy if not for his early demise. As far as his 17 kills in one day, have to compare the actual losses vs the claims and try to piece it together. Might be impossible to do though John B Lundstrom did it for the early months of Guadacanal. Must have taken years of research. Anyone got the time?
Aren't you a self-confessed HISTORY GEEK who is currently in KOREA??? and you dare ask such a question?

Sounds like a perfect Master's paper at your choice of Command Staff College!

USMCFLYR
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:09 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Aren't you a self-confessed HISTORY GEEK who is currently in KOREA??? and you dare ask such a question?

Sounds like a perfect Master's paper at your choice of Command Staff College!

USMCFLYR
I am but my weekends are reserved for drinking...a lot...and other stuff I am starting another online ERAU course for my masters...if only it involved history.
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:41 PM   #25 (permalink)
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