deadstick35

No kidding...sad.

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rickair7777

The USAF is pretty good at getting around end-strength caps by hiring civilians...it's often easier to get money out of congress than authorized increases in active duty bodies.

But this is really one of those things that should have been kept in house...jobs like sere instructor just beg for deviants to apply.

FlyBoyd

SERE 1996

The dude I "spent the most time with" was a civilian...some kind of special GS type. I don't recall which branch of the government he was with but I definitely remember being surprised when I debriefed with him after and he said he was a GS. The "worker bees" were active duty but the head dudes were GS.

rickair7777

There were a couple of contractors with impeccable credentials involved in the navy sere...they had been POWs in back the Nam. Their presence made sense obviously.

CAFB 04-12

This whole things is...weird. Really weird.

FlyBoyd

I understand what you are saying and they were there too. The guys I'm talking about were VERY active in my training and were way too young to have been a POW. I'll leave it at that...

slipped

LOL TOO FUNNY

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BDGERJMN

The alleged crime aside I'm not sure I get the reason why some on here are against the idea of hiring contractors to teach at a school like SERE. We have contractors doing a lot of other things within DoD requiring much higher levels of clearances for many different programs, SERE is no different. The fact that this CTR allegedly exercised criminal behavior is not indicative of a problem hiring contractors is it? If you think it is I'd ask you to go to your respective service message boards and read all about what our active duty members are doing that isn't legal.

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rickair7777

It's not an issue of clearance or trustworthiness, plenty of important work is done by DoD civilians and contractors. My issue here is the unique nature of the job...the instructors walk a fine line and I prefer that they be in a direct military chain of command and subject to the UCMJ.

Rape will obviously subject you to civilian criminal justice, but a contractor could seriously cross the line in other ways with a student and only be subject to termination. He's not under UCMJ and I absolutely guarantee that a civilian lawyer could dig up reasonable doubt for almost any other alleged abuse just based on the nature of the job. I doubt any rational DA would even want to touch it.

Also I like those guys getting rotated out every couple of years...making a career of that can't be good for anyone.

BDGERJMN

Certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion but really what is a UCMJ punishment for this crime going to do that a State or Federal conviction won't? In many cases civilian process will be much more harsh and thorough than a military court martial in some cases not, each process has its faults do they not?

You're right the instructors walk a fine line and that line is a line that in my opinion ought not to be walked by an E-5 or E-6 in dealings with senior officers in the course. Those of us who've been through the course know what I'm talking about and I dont think a NDA is a good get out of jail free card in that regard.

My point here is some seem to have an issue with accountability and rather than look at a hiring practice for positions or the type of work let's look at the contract and how it's written and what folks are subject to. The line of work pales in comparison to some of the work you and I speak of that we have contractors and civilians doing so to say that a need for rotation(by the way Navy SERE instructors are constantly rotated within the school) to a different line of work, I'd say is...overkill. We'll kneejerk this one to death I'm sure like many other things that don't go according to plan.

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