failed UPT check and applications
01-19-2015, 10:34 PM
#61
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 62
Arguing semantics over this is silly.
Everyone needs to realize the end goal here...these questions aren't designed to be an ultimate decider because you said yes or no at face value...or a tally mark in some hypothetical column that ultimately points towards Thumbs up or down for the hire. These questions all have a method to their companies madness...and it is simple. They want to know how you present and explain yourself. That's it.
You can argue form 8s or NATOPS /7's, downed flights in flight school, cfi/atp checks, etc until you are blue in the face. And you can argue letter vs spirit of the law until you are blue in the face. Who cares? You can interpret however you like and you can be right. There's only way to be wrong, and that's knowingly lying about something and more importantly, being perceived to knowingly lie about it.
I have a buddy who who Failed his initial atp check (which was ridiculous btw) and has a dui on record. He talked candidly about them and was honest. Even though his failure was bull...he surely didn't present it that way. Presented the fact that he accepted and learned from it. CJO from delta. Simple as that. This isn't some make or break scenario. They didn't look at his record and indicate that they were willing to overlook his mistakes because they absolutely needed his special flying abilities as Chuck Yeager reincarnate.
If you are losing any sleep over this issue...you are doing it wrong.
If you downed a simple training flight and mention it as a failure "just in case"...you are erring on the side of caution and that's the good side. It will show honesty and you can make good discusision on how you learned from a mistake and became a better pilot. HR types like that kind of mentality. Huzzah. On the flip side, if you make the argument that a downed training flight isn't an official faa check ride and therefore say no...you are following directions and diligently RTFQ and that's also a good side to be on. HR types also like that. Huzzah.
What HR types don't like is if you say no to the question...and they specifically question you about a downed flight... You bumble and stumble about it while simultaneously getting combative and defensive about it, turn red in the face, and tell them they don't understand military training. That's a sure way of raising red flags.
If you still can't figure it out...here's an idea to cover all possible angles.
Question: Have you ever failed a checkride?
Answer: I have never failed an official faa checkride. However, during flight school, I downed/failed/unsat a flight during () phase.
If they ask to elaborate, now you just set your self up with a softball you should hit out of the park with a story you are familiar with and use keywords such as learning experience, humility, better pilot, determination, rebounded, etc.
Once again, keep the big picture in mind. If someone with a atp failure and dui can get hired, failing some instrument check in initial flight training isn't going to make or break you. Or obviously any failure for that matter. Period.
Everyone needs to realize the end goal here...these questions aren't designed to be an ultimate decider because you said yes or no at face value...or a tally mark in some hypothetical column that ultimately points towards Thumbs up or down for the hire. These questions all have a method to their companies madness...and it is simple. They want to know how you present and explain yourself. That's it.
You can argue form 8s or NATOPS /7's, downed flights in flight school, cfi/atp checks, etc until you are blue in the face. And you can argue letter vs spirit of the law until you are blue in the face. Who cares? You can interpret however you like and you can be right. There's only way to be wrong, and that's knowingly lying about something and more importantly, being perceived to knowingly lie about it.
I have a buddy who who Failed his initial atp check (which was ridiculous btw) and has a dui on record. He talked candidly about them and was honest. Even though his failure was bull...he surely didn't present it that way. Presented the fact that he accepted and learned from it. CJO from delta. Simple as that. This isn't some make or break scenario. They didn't look at his record and indicate that they were willing to overlook his mistakes because they absolutely needed his special flying abilities as Chuck Yeager reincarnate.
If you are losing any sleep over this issue...you are doing it wrong.
If you downed a simple training flight and mention it as a failure "just in case"...you are erring on the side of caution and that's the good side. It will show honesty and you can make good discusision on how you learned from a mistake and became a better pilot. HR types like that kind of mentality. Huzzah. On the flip side, if you make the argument that a downed training flight isn't an official faa check ride and therefore say no...you are following directions and diligently RTFQ and that's also a good side to be on. HR types also like that. Huzzah.
What HR types don't like is if you say no to the question...and they specifically question you about a downed flight... You bumble and stumble about it while simultaneously getting combative and defensive about it, turn red in the face, and tell them they don't understand military training. That's a sure way of raising red flags.
If you still can't figure it out...here's an idea to cover all possible angles.
Question: Have you ever failed a checkride?
Answer: I have never failed an official faa checkride. However, during flight school, I downed/failed/unsat a flight during () phase.
If they ask to elaborate, now you just set your self up with a softball you should hit out of the park with a story you are familiar with and use keywords such as learning experience, humility, better pilot, determination, rebounded, etc.
Once again, keep the big picture in mind. If someone with a atp failure and dui can get hired, failing some instrument check in initial flight training isn't going to make or break you. Or obviously any failure for that matter. Period.
01-20-2015, 05:58 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: B-52 IP / Delta Poolie
Posts: 188
Originally Posted by Cookenbauer
Arguing semantics over this is silly.
Everyone needs to realize the end goal here...these questions aren't designed to be an ultimate decider because you said yes or no at face value...or a tally mark in some hypothetical column that ultimately points towards Thumbs up or down for the hire. These questions all have a method to their companies madness...and it is simple. They want to know how you present and explain yourself. That's it.
You can argue form 8s or NATOPS /7's, downed flights in flight school, cfi/atp checks, etc until you are blue in the face. And you can argue letter vs spirit of the law until you are blue in the face. Who cares? You can interpret however you like and you can be right. There's only way to be wrong, and that's knowingly lying about something and more importantly, being perceived to knowingly lie about it.
I have a buddy who who Failed his initial atp check (which was ridiculous btw) and has a dui on record. He talked candidly about them and was honest. Even though his failure was bull...he surely didn't present it that way. Presented the fact that he accepted and learned from it. CJO from delta. Simple as that. This isn't some make or break scenario. They didn't look at his record and indicate that they were willing to overlook his mistakes because they absolutely needed his special flying abilities as Chuck Yeager reincarnate.
If you are losing any sleep over this issue...you are doing it wrong.
If you downed a simple training flight and mention it as a failure "just in case"...you are erring on the side of caution and that's the good side. It will show honesty and you can make good discusision on how you learned from a mistake and became a better pilot. HR types like that kind of mentality. Huzzah. On the flip side, if you make the argument that a downed training flight isn't an official faa check ride and therefore say no...you are following directions and diligently RTFQ and that's also a good side to be on. HR types also like that. Huzzah.
What HR types don't like is if you say no to the question...and they specifically question you about a downed flight... You bumble and stumble about it while simultaneously getting combative and defensive about it, turn red in the face, and tell them they don't understand military training. That's a sure way of raising red flags.
If you still can't figure it out...here's an idea to cover all possible angles.
Question: Have you ever failed a checkride?
Answer: I have never failed an official faa checkride. However, during flight school, I downed/failed/unsat a flight during () phase.
If they ask to elaborate, now you just set your self up with a softball you should hit out of the park with a story you are familiar with and use keywords such as learning experience, humility, better pilot, determination, rebounded, etc.
Once again, keep the big picture in mind. If someone with a atp failure and dui can get hired, failing some instrument check in initial flight training isn't going to make or break you. Or obviously any failure for that matter. Period.
Everyone needs to realize the end goal here...these questions aren't designed to be an ultimate decider because you said yes or no at face value...or a tally mark in some hypothetical column that ultimately points towards Thumbs up or down for the hire. These questions all have a method to their companies madness...and it is simple. They want to know how you present and explain yourself. That's it.
You can argue form 8s or NATOPS /7's, downed flights in flight school, cfi/atp checks, etc until you are blue in the face. And you can argue letter vs spirit of the law until you are blue in the face. Who cares? You can interpret however you like and you can be right. There's only way to be wrong, and that's knowingly lying about something and more importantly, being perceived to knowingly lie about it.
I have a buddy who who Failed his initial atp check (which was ridiculous btw) and has a dui on record. He talked candidly about them and was honest. Even though his failure was bull...he surely didn't present it that way. Presented the fact that he accepted and learned from it. CJO from delta. Simple as that. This isn't some make or break scenario. They didn't look at his record and indicate that they were willing to overlook his mistakes because they absolutely needed his special flying abilities as Chuck Yeager reincarnate.
If you are losing any sleep over this issue...you are doing it wrong.
If you downed a simple training flight and mention it as a failure "just in case"...you are erring on the side of caution and that's the good side. It will show honesty and you can make good discusision on how you learned from a mistake and became a better pilot. HR types like that kind of mentality. Huzzah. On the flip side, if you make the argument that a downed training flight isn't an official faa check ride and therefore say no...you are following directions and diligently RTFQ and that's also a good side to be on. HR types also like that. Huzzah.
What HR types don't like is if you say no to the question...and they specifically question you about a downed flight... You bumble and stumble about it while simultaneously getting combative and defensive about it, turn red in the face, and tell them they don't understand military training. That's a sure way of raising red flags.
If you still can't figure it out...here's an idea to cover all possible angles.
Question: Have you ever failed a checkride?
Answer: I have never failed an official faa checkride. However, during flight school, I downed/failed/unsat a flight during () phase.
If they ask to elaborate, now you just set your self up with a softball you should hit out of the park with a story you are familiar with and use keywords such as learning experience, humility, better pilot, determination, rebounded, etc.
Once again, keep the big picture in mind. If someone with a atp failure and dui can get hired, failing some instrument check in initial flight training isn't going to make or break you. Or obviously any failure for that matter. Period.
For those of you worried about checking "Yes" in that block and having it lower your app's computer generated score, it doesn't work that way. Tons of people on here worried about their low GPAs and their taxi incidents, and their speeding tickets lowering their app score need to relax. I talked to one of the head hiring dudes at Delta last week, and he told me there is no computer score. Every app score comes about from a MANUAL review. 4500 apps on file still have not been reviewed yet. If your app has been reviewed, it falls into a Tier (1, 2, or 3). They are still inviting Tier 1 apps. We were told that they were coming to the end of that stack, and Tier 2 apps would probably start receiving calls within about six months. The key to getting the invite is to get your app reviewed, and the quickest way to ensure that happens is to have an internal rec email the pilot selection team directly.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
