Cubdrick

Rickair,

That was my original understanding as well. My thinking was then thrown by the following explanation taken from the FAA referenced above,

"The person is using a Cessna 336 to add an airplane multiengine rating onto a flight instructor certificate for which the applicant already holds an airplane single engine rating....

NOTE: To flight-instruct in a multiengine airplane that has a VMC speed established by the manufacturer, the person would merely need to complete training and certification at a pilot certificate level of at least the commercial pilot level in a multiengine airplane that has a published VMC speed, and then the limitation would be removed from his pilot certificate."

Thanks for your earlier reply. I know I'm wrong, I just don't why!

Cubdrick

Twin Wasp

Cubdrick,

What does your pilot certificate for ratings and limitations? I take it you're using military experience to get the FAA certificate? Something like commericial, Inst., MEL, limited to CLT?

FAA example B is a person who has a Comm MEL/CLT and takes a CFI checkride in a 336. He gets the ME CFI but because he only holds a CLT Comm, he can only instruct in a CLT twin. If he takes a "normal" twin checkride to remove the restriction from his pilot certificate, he'd be able to do "normal" twin instruction without further ado. You can only instruct in category/class/type (if a TR is required) that are on your pilot certificate.

Cubdrick

TW,

My pilot certificate: ATP/MEL B-737 (no restrictions)

Yes, that's exactly how I interpreted example B. To me it seems like a "back-door" way of adding a "full" MEI...e.g. get a MEL/CLT, take the CFI ride in the 336, get the CLT removed from pilot certificate through training --> now I have a "full" MEI w/o demonstrating instructor skills in a "normal" ME aircraft.

Essentially I have completed the same steps (but different order)...got a ATP/MEL, "earned" my CFI ME/CLT. The rule reads as if taking a pilot (not instructor) checkride in a "normal" MEL I could have the CLT removed. To me it would make more sense that I'd have to fly an CFI ride to have the CLT deleted. Maybe that's what they intended, but just didn't word it clearly?

Don't mean to make a mountain out of a mole hill. I probably won't use my CFI in the traditional sense. I'm still AD, so I thought it was worth the time to take advantage of a good deal while it lasted!

Cubdrick

rickair7777

There are some cases where an addition to your pilot cert automatically grants you instructor privileges as well. An example is a commercial seaplane rating also allows to teach in a seaplane without any additional checkride.

Sounds like this might be one of those cases. The commercial PTS lists the requirements to remove a CL restriction, but the MEI PTS does not mention it so that must be why. I'm a little surprised, from an instructional point of view SE maneuvers are dangerous.

Maybe ask your local FSDO to be safe...

Twin Wasp

Cubdrick,

You said one needs to be a lawyer to understand the FAA regs. You are correct. I've said there should be questions about bankruptcy and labor law on the ATP written, if you do this for a living you'll have to deal with both.

I can't see anything about putting a CLT restriction on the CFI in the guidance from the FAA. The PTS does say the aircraft used has to be able to perform all the tasks for the checkride. Maybe there's something buried in the Mil to Civilian conversion.

HuggyU2

You will have to do an instructor checkride in a non-CLT aircraft. Just getting the CLT restriction removed from your pilot certificate won't cut it.
You won't find this in the CFR's: this whole CLT restriction on the Flight Instructor certificate only came about ~3 weeks ago.

FightingFalconI

Just jumping in here, have not read all the posts on this but I have been doing the Military ATP checkrides for 12 years now and I keep in touch with the FSDO to get the latest readings on the regs. First, what determines if an airplane has a CL thrust restriction is simply if it has a published Vmc. The F-117 guys found this out then went back to Lockheed and asked them to publish a Vmc for the F-117 and voila! no CL thrust restriction.
About the Mil Comp CFI. When they first started this in Oct 09, they would issues guys with a CL thrust restriction a II and a MEI with restrictions. then the FAA determined you cannot issue an Instructor Certificate with restrictions, so now you will only get an II. When you renew you will on get an II unless you take a CFI checkride in an airplane.
So what does the MilComp CFI get you: Alot, even if you don't realize it now. For initial CFI checkrides, most (it may be all) FSDOs require you to schedule thru them and they have the right to have you take it with an FAA Ops inspector. Even if you take it with a DPE it is extra time and money as most will charge more and only can do one a day. BUT, if you have any instructor rating, you can schedule as an add-on directly with a DPE. We do this all the time and it is alot cheaper and easier. I recommend you do the ATP then stay an extra day and do the MEI add-on.
For renewal, go to AmericanFlyer.com and pay their one time fee for the FIRC. You do the online course and then if you need to renew they charge a small processing fee. I recommend you renew every 24 months, cause if it expires, you have to take a checkride to renew. PM with questions about your specific case. Do the MilComp CFI before they change their minds!!

FightingFalconI

I just forwarded the section for "Twin Wasps" post to my FSDO for them to look at. It looks like getting the CL thrust restriction removed from your commercial/ATP will do it. So the Flight Instructor certificate should say MEL but only valid when accompanied by Pilot Cert xxxx. Since the Pilot Certificate has the restriction, not the CFI cert. then removing the CL from the Comm/ATP should work. We'll see what they say. This is when I would not want to be an FAA Ops Inspector!

FNG69

I have been hired by a Part 121 airline who will award me a restricted ATP and type rating during training. My certificate now is a commercial pilot with AMEL with a center thrust limitation. The airline is telling me I have to have the restriction removed before beginning training because they aren't able to. Can anyone explain why they wouldn't be able to remove the restriction? Also, is there a reason I wouldn't be able to fly with them with the multi-engine ATP and type rating that I'll receive during training even with the restriction on my commercial? Thanks.

PerfInit

The short answer may be that the airline does not have an approved FAA training program course to remove the limitation. There are specific PTS maneuvers and tasks that must be demonstrated. One is
Vmc Demo. The simulator may or may not be capable or authorized per FAA NSP, T001A form.