Rusty17

Maybe I haven't been reading the new rules correctly, but wouldn't this essentially put every ALLATPs type place out of business and force all ATPs to be completed in a Sim?

hindsight2020

No, an ATP written test and practical test (in said semenhole) is still required before they will issue you the certificate. So those services will still be required. What changes is the onerous and prohibitively expensive prerequisites delineated by the new FAR 61.156, specifically the 10 hours of sim time to include the 6 hours of level C FFS simulator time in a supra-40K MTOW type.

That cost is a non-starter to the majority of aspiring airline applicants, most military folk included. Even the Riddle kids will be sticker shocked by that kind of level C sim time costs. The only way that will work is if the airlines pay for it. If you're going straight for a major job and don't already have your ATP? yeah buddy.

I think that whole sim time requirement is gonna implode. But we'll see. To be completely frank, if my mil job disappeared tomorrow the first thing I'd do is get myself over to work for one of these heavy sim providers. Talk about a booming industry. I bet the hours and the pay are mucho bueno compared to junior airline life, free type ratings and home every night. Might even make enough money to afford your own recreational flying (I do already, but would like for that to continue post-military), which is all I'd need to go to get me through the drudgery of working on a box.

ClarenceOver

Sticker shock is right. The challenger is barely above the mtow requirement and costs 1500 bucks an hour to run. 10-20k for an atp without going to the airlines is just ridiculous in my opinion.

Rusty17

I understand that... but if you are a military guy who takes the written before 1 Aug 14 you can still get your ATP in a small twin at an ALLATPs type place during that 2 yr window, right? All of the pre-req stuff is to take the written isn't it?

AVIATORCFI

There will be ATP rides in light twins after August 1 2014 as long as the written was passed before August 1 2014.

ClarenceOver

You can get grandfathered in? When does it become mandatory to get the ATP in a level D sim?

MooseAg03

Once your written expires if you haven't obtained your ATP yet. As long as you complete the written prior to 1 Aug 2014, you then have 24 months to complete the practical without having to go through the entire new training process. To clarify, the new sim training IS NOT the ATP ride itself, rather it is just additional training required to be completed before taking the written after 1 Aug 2014. You would still need to complete the practical, but my guess is these training programs will offer the ATP ride in the sim at the end of the required training. Straight from the source:

Ref FAR 65.155(d) "An applicant who successfully completes the knowledge test for an airline transport pilot certificate prior to August 1, 2014, must successfully complete the practical test within 24 months from the month in which the knowledge test was successfully completed. An applicant who passes the knowledge test prior to August 1, 2014, but fails to successfully complete the practical test within 24 months must complete the airline transport pilot certification training program specified in §61.156 and retake the knowledge test prior to applying for the practical test."

mrjiggs287

I second everything MooseAg03 just stated! If I were not deployed right now I would post the e-mail I received from the FAA for further proof. The FAA stated the additional sim training is a pre-req to take the written test AFTER the new rule takes affect. I re-iterate…it has nothing to do with taking the practical. If you have a current written after the new rule takes affect you can take the practical just as you can today to include in a light twin, simulator, even a single-engine (although I don't know why you would…you'd then be restricted a an ATP SEL).

Another point I need to make here is this…as of the date of my e-mail receipt from the FAA (Nov '13), they had not even figured out what to include in the training requirements. I can't imagine that makes it easy to develop a syllabus. My advice to all is to knock out the written before the new rule takes affect, even if you don't think you will take the practical anytime soon…you never know…a lot can happen in a couple of years.

FrankSavage

If given the option of aircraft, should you choose steam gauges or G500 equipped? All steam gauge experience so thinking that's the best plan, although technology would be cool to see. Worried that you could get wrapped up in chasing digits.

E2CMaster

My advice-

Trying to learn glass, in 2 flights, while learning a new plane, and then taking a checkride is not optimal.

It took me a good part of the 2 training flights to get anywhere comfortable with glass.

Oh, and AATPs told me I'd be doing steam when I scheduled, and when I got there, BAM. All G500s.