To VSP or not to VSP?
01-28-2014, 04:29 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 737 right
Posts: 755
To VSP or not to VSP?
I just found out my year group is eligible for the VSP and they are trying to reduce a total of 77 of us by 26 so considering I have not started my Masters and was very late to complete SOS in-correspondence I believe I will be a prime target for the RIF should they not find 26 of us that are interested in taking the VSP.
With that said I am trying to gauge my job prospects on the outside. I am a former FAIP so the majority of my time is TPIC, but I don't have a lot of total time yet. I am putting an application in at my hometown Reserve unit and if accepted then I will definitely put in for the VSP, but based on my numbers below how do I look for getting an airline job? I know I won't be competitive for Delta or Southwest, but I also would rather not take a 75% paycut to go fly for a regional either. How competitive will I be at companies like JetBlue? Thoughts...
Pre-Conversion Numbers and I also should be able to increase all of those numbers by about 200 or so before I get out:
Total Time: 1622
Total Turbine: 1415
Total Turbine PIC: 1210
With that said I am trying to gauge my job prospects on the outside. I am a former FAIP so the majority of my time is TPIC, but I don't have a lot of total time yet. I am putting an application in at my hometown Reserve unit and if accepted then I will definitely put in for the VSP, but based on my numbers below how do I look for getting an airline job? I know I won't be competitive for Delta or Southwest, but I also would rather not take a 75% paycut to go fly for a regional either. How competitive will I be at companies like JetBlue? Thoughts...
Pre-Conversion Numbers and I also should be able to increase all of those numbers by about 200 or so before I get out:
Total Time: 1622
Total Turbine: 1415
Total Turbine PIC: 1210
01-28-2014, 05:04 AM
#2
Otto
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Turkish Pile Driver
Posts: 1,806
Originally Posted by FLY6584
I just found out my year group is eligible for the VSP and they are trying to reduce a total of 77 of us by 26 so considering I have not started my Masters and was very late to complete SOS in-correspondence I believe I will be a prime target for the RIF should they not find 26 of us that are interested in taking the VSP.
With that said I am trying to gauge my job prospects on the outside. I am a former FAIP so the majority of my time is TPIC, but I don't have a lot of total time yet. I am putting an application in at my hometown Reserve unit and if accepted then I will definitely put in for the VSP, but based on my numbers below how do I look for getting an airline job? I know I won't be competitive for Delta or Southwest, but I also would rather not take a 75% paycut to go fly for a regional either. How competitive will I be at companies like JetBlue? Thoughts...
Pre-Conversion Numbers and I also should be able to increase all of those numbers by about 200 or so before I get out:
Total Time: 1622
Total Turbine: 1415
Total Turbine PIC: 1210
With that said I am trying to gauge my job prospects on the outside. I am a former FAIP so the majority of my time is TPIC, but I don't have a lot of total time yet. I am putting an application in at my hometown Reserve unit and if accepted then I will definitely put in for the VSP, but based on my numbers below how do I look for getting an airline job? I know I won't be competitive for Delta or Southwest, but I also would rather not take a 75% paycut to go fly for a regional either. How competitive will I be at companies like JetBlue? Thoughts...
Pre-Conversion Numbers and I also should be able to increase all of those numbers by about 200 or so before I get out:
Total Time: 1622
Total Turbine: 1415
Total Turbine PIC: 1210
2. Your numbers barely meet mins.
3. Not everybody does a mil conversion, and several majors do not count your UPT time (not sure if that's part of your hours math). The ones who have a conversion mostly add .3 per sortie which won't buy you much, JB multiplies by 1.3.
4. Guys with double your time, with IP/SEFE experience, as former DOs and chiefs of safety sometimes get calls, sometimes don't.
5. There is no pilot shortage. Delta and United have over 11,000 applications on file. United isn't even interviewing until April due to simulator shortages and Delta's hands are mostly tied due to flow agreements. USA/AA and SWA are hiring but not in significant enough quantities to put a dent into those 11k guys already looking for a job.
Based on these observations, barring you're married to a chief pilot or your dad is the CEO I don't think you have much of a chance at any major or legacy in the immediate future. Your hours do not meet any of the minimums for companies like Spirit, Virgin, and JB (unless you have a Blue Dart). You are highly qualified to be a regional pilot, and that's about it. A good friend was informed the day he took command of a 300+ person squadron he'd been RIF'd and would be out of work in 6 months after being assured the AF would never RIF an incoming commander. The difference in severance pay was significant. Sorry, can't offer advice on whether to take VSP or not since I haven't seen your record; however, you're really the only one who can make that decision since only you know what level of pain you can withstand and what your responsibilities are.
6. Before listening to anybody here, refer back to #1.
EDIT; btw, never post again since you have exactly 169 posts. Well done.
01-28-2014, 05:20 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 737 right
Posts: 755
Originally Posted by MikeF16
1. Nobody really knows unless they're on a hiring board. Pretty sure nobody on these forums has any say at any major airline. Take what I and others say with a grain of salt.
2. Your numbers barely meet mins.
3. Not everybody does a mil conversion, and several majors do not count your UPT time (not sure if that's part of your hours math). The ones who have a conversion mostly add .3 per sortie which won't buy you much, JB multiplies by 1.3.
4. Guys with double your time, with IP/SEFE experience, as former DOs and chiefs of safety sometimes get calls, sometimes don't.
5. There is no pilot shortage. Delta and United have over 11,000 applications on file. United isn't even interviewing until April due to simulator shortages and Delta's hands are mostly tied due to flow agreements. USA/AA and SWA are hiring but not in significant enough quantities to put a dent into those 11k guys already looking for a job.
Based on these observations, barring you're married to a chief pilot or your dad is the CEO I don't think you have much of a chance at any major or legacy in the immediate future. Your hours do not meet any of the minimums for companies like Spirit, Virgin, and JB (unless you have a Blue Dart). You are highly qualified to be a regional pilot, and that's about it. A good friend was informed the day he took command of a 300+ person squadron he'd been RIF'd and would be out of work in 6 months after being assured the AF would never RIF an incoming commander. The difference in severance pay was significant. Sorry, can't offer advice on whether to take VSP or not since I haven't seen your record; however, you're really the only one who can make that decision since only you know what level of pain you can withstand and what your responsibilities are.
6. Before listening to anybody here, refer back to #1.
EDIT; btw, never post again since you have exactly 169 posts. Well done.
2. Your numbers barely meet mins.
3. Not everybody does a mil conversion, and several majors do not count your UPT time (not sure if that's part of your hours math). The ones who have a conversion mostly add .3 per sortie which won't buy you much, JB multiplies by 1.3.
4. Guys with double your time, with IP/SEFE experience, as former DOs and chiefs of safety sometimes get calls, sometimes don't.
5. There is no pilot shortage. Delta and United have over 11,000 applications on file. United isn't even interviewing until April due to simulator shortages and Delta's hands are mostly tied due to flow agreements. USA/AA and SWA are hiring but not in significant enough quantities to put a dent into those 11k guys already looking for a job.
Based on these observations, barring you're married to a chief pilot or your dad is the CEO I don't think you have much of a chance at any major or legacy in the immediate future. Your hours do not meet any of the minimums for companies like Spirit, Virgin, and JB (unless you have a Blue Dart). You are highly qualified to be a regional pilot, and that's about it. A good friend was informed the day he took command of a 300+ person squadron he'd been RIF'd and would be out of work in 6 months after being assured the AF would never RIF an incoming commander. The difference in severance pay was significant. Sorry, can't offer advice on whether to take VSP or not since I haven't seen your record; however, you're really the only one who can make that decision since only you know what level of pain you can withstand and what your responsibilities are.
6. Before listening to anybody here, refer back to #1.
EDIT; btw, never post again since you have exactly 169 posts. Well done.
If I can snag a Reserve job I really don't mind flying for a Regional as well. Sure it'll be tough the next couple of years, but I figure I'll already have the minimum TPIC hours for the majority of the Majors/Legacies that most Regional FO's can't get and I can spend a couple years in the Regional's increasing that total time. Is my thinking right on that?
01-28-2014, 05:36 AM
#4
Otto
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Turkish Pile Driver
Posts: 1,806
Originally Posted by FLY6584
Haha. Nice catch, but yeah I definitely didn't expect to fall into a job at a Major/Legacy. I was just hoping with guys jumping ship from companies like JetBlue for Legacies that they would be ramping up some hiring.
If I can snag a Reserve job I really don't mind flying for a Regional as well. Sure it'll be tough the next couple of years, but I figure I'll already have the minimum TPIC hours for the majority of the Majors/Legacies that most Regional FO's can't get and I can spend a couple years in the Regional's increasing that total time. Is my thinking right on that?
If I can snag a Reserve job I really don't mind flying for a Regional as well. Sure it'll be tough the next couple of years, but I figure I'll already have the minimum TPIC hours for the majority of the Majors/Legacies that most Regional FO's can't get and I can spend a couple years in the Regional's increasing that total time. Is my thinking right on that?
01-28-2014, 06:11 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 256
I simply don't understand why you think the regionals are "below" you. Sure, it is a pay cut and it would suck. But, if you can jump on with a reserve/Guard unit like you said you're trying to do, then you've essentially broke even. With your credentials, you seem entitled to "something" but you haven't done the work yet to truly warrant.
Back in the midst of OEF/OIF, AMC had a standing waiver to have guys fly upwards of 125 hrs a month. If you think about the math, guys were getting your hours in a little over a year. Your time is definitely nothing to scoff at -- you did your time. But as Mike points out, you will be very hard pressed to find a job with your "minimal" time. But, you are PERFECT for a regional job.
I would suggest that you put in applications at EVERY airline out there. Stop looking at the pay scale. Get hired, build 121 time, and move on from there.
For some comparison: A guy in my SQ just got the interview/thumbs up from SWA. Former B-52 DO, check pilot, around 5000 hours, ton of IP time, Chief Pilot, etc.
Nobody wants to discourage you, we just want you to be realistic....keep in mind that a bunch of 2500-3500 hour Captains are about to be jumping ship as well. Hence, on paper, they are more competitive.
BTW, where were you a FAIP at?
Back in the midst of OEF/OIF, AMC had a standing waiver to have guys fly upwards of 125 hrs a month. If you think about the math, guys were getting your hours in a little over a year. Your time is definitely nothing to scoff at -- you did your time. But as Mike points out, you will be very hard pressed to find a job with your "minimal" time. But, you are PERFECT for a regional job.
I would suggest that you put in applications at EVERY airline out there. Stop looking at the pay scale. Get hired, build 121 time, and move on from there.
For some comparison: A guy in my SQ just got the interview/thumbs up from SWA. Former B-52 DO, check pilot, around 5000 hours, ton of IP time, Chief Pilot, etc.
Nobody wants to discourage you, we just want you to be realistic....keep in mind that a bunch of 2500-3500 hour Captains are about to be jumping ship as well. Hence, on paper, they are more competitive.
BTW, where were you a FAIP at?
01-28-2014, 06:45 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 737 right
Posts: 755
Originally Posted by T6 Pilot
I simply don't understand why you think the regionals are "below" you. Sure, it is a pay cut and it would suck. But, if you can jump on with a reserve/Guard unit like you said you're trying to do, then you've essentially broke even. With your credentials, you seem entitled to "something" but you haven't done the work yet to truly warrant.
Back in the midst of OEF/OIF, AMC had a standing waiver to have guys fly upwards of 125 hrs a month. If you think about the math, guys were getting your hours in a little over a year. Your time is definitely nothing to scoff at -- you did your time. But as Mike points out, you will be very hard pressed to find a job with your "minimal" time. But, you are PERFECT for a regional job.
I would suggest that you put in applications at EVERY airline out there. Stop looking at the pay scale. Get hired, build 121 time, and move on from there.
For some comparison: A guy in my SQ just got the interview/thumbs up from SWA. Former B-52 DO, check pilot, around 5000 hours, ton of IP time, Chief Pilot, etc.
Nobody wants to discourage you, we just want you to be realistic....keep in mind that a bunch of 2500-3500 hour Captains are about to be jumping ship as well. Hence, on paper, they are more competitive.
BTW, where were you a FAIP at?
Back in the midst of OEF/OIF, AMC had a standing waiver to have guys fly upwards of 125 hrs a month. If you think about the math, guys were getting your hours in a little over a year. Your time is definitely nothing to scoff at -- you did your time. But as Mike points out, you will be very hard pressed to find a job with your "minimal" time. But, you are PERFECT for a regional job.
I would suggest that you put in applications at EVERY airline out there. Stop looking at the pay scale. Get hired, build 121 time, and move on from there.
For some comparison: A guy in my SQ just got the interview/thumbs up from SWA. Former B-52 DO, check pilot, around 5000 hours, ton of IP time, Chief Pilot, etc.
Nobody wants to discourage you, we just want you to be realistic....keep in mind that a bunch of 2500-3500 hour Captains are about to be jumping ship as well. Hence, on paper, they are more competitive.
BTW, where were you a FAIP at?
But like you said a Reserve job combined with a Regional job, especially if you can keep them near each other, would be a pretty good deal right and just stick it out until a Legacy calls.
01-28-2014, 06:46 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 737 right
Posts: 755
Originally Posted by Hilltopper89
Frame of reference: I have multiple, multiple friends who have 3,000+ single seat hours, IP, SEFE, DO, CC, etc. who haven't been called yet.
01-28-2014, 07:07 AM
#9
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 38
To VSP or not to VSP?
FLY, I get what you are saying. A regional job would be rough due salary and time on the road. But it keeps you current and you will pile up the hours super fast.
You could get a corporate pilot job with good pay but they usually don't fly a lot.
The good plan for you would be to get a flying reserve/guard job (anywhere) and go active duty as much as possible. Keep in mind if you activate voluntarily for 6 months at a time than you owe all of the VSP back. At least that is how it works for the Marines I believe it's a title 9 thing which affects you too.
Regional job plus flying reserve job may be best. Make sure you have good attendance (not counting mil leave) and don't call in sick too much at the regional job. All Majors will
check.
You could get a corporate pilot job with good pay but they usually don't fly a lot.
The good plan for you would be to get a flying reserve/guard job (anywhere) and go active duty as much as possible. Keep in mind if you activate voluntarily for 6 months at a time than you owe all of the VSP back. At least that is how it works for the Marines I believe it's a title 9 thing which affects you too.
Regional job plus flying reserve job may be best. Make sure you have good attendance (not counting mil leave) and don't call in sick too much at the regional job. All Majors will
check.
01-28-2014, 07:25 AM
#10
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
go guard/reserve after taking the VSP. youre technically on the hook to pay it back (in 20 years) if you transition to guard/reserve, but my guess is the AF will forget to bill you for it when you retire.
Know what youre getting yourself into. You really have to love the airline lifestyle or else you'll wish you stayed in. Commuting to work sucks, so if you can live in base, that would be the number one driver of whether you choose to stay in or get out. Getting out of the AF just to commute across the country to sit reserve is not going to be all that satisfying.
Also get used to some painful realities: taxes, health care costs, long term disability/loss of license premiums, no weekends or holidays off for the first XX years, perdiem is pennies on the dollar compared to what the govt pays, etc.
Know what youre getting yourself into. You really have to love the airline lifestyle or else you'll wish you stayed in. Commuting to work sucks, so if you can live in base, that would be the number one driver of whether you choose to stay in or get out. Getting out of the AF just to commute across the country to sit reserve is not going to be all that satisfying.
Also get used to some painful realities: taxes, health care costs, long term disability/loss of license premiums, no weekends or holidays off for the first XX years, perdiem is pennies on the dollar compared to what the govt pays, etc.
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