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Lessons Learned During App/Interview Process

Old 04-09-2014, 03:53 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Hawk 285 View Post
So, did you get the job?
They don't tell you on the spot (at least at SkyWest anyways), but were giving me winning comms. I would be surprised if they didn't offer me the job. They said we'll let you know in 2 weeks
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:26 AM
  #32  
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Also, the call for an interview will come at the most unexpected time. It was a day prior to my check ride at a national that I got the call for my US Airways interview. Interviewed 5 days later, offered a class a week after that. Lesson - don't stop preparing for the interview at the company you really want until you get the job there.
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Old 05-08-2014, 07:43 AM
  #33  
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Some admin advice for the job seeker.

Prep your wife/family for the pay cut and lifestyle change. We started discussing this about a year and a half out. I emphasized that it would be a crappy first year and we'd have to make financial cut backs. I've been very fortunate to have a very supportive wife. She understands that the sacrifices have a potential great payoff in just a few years.

I wish I would have actually made those financial cuts a year out, but we waited until I got the job offer (about a month out). We cut back on going out to eat from 3 to 4 times a week to once a month, got rid of cable, stopped buying magazines, Starbucks, etc. I don't buy anything in an airport anymore. These changes have actually allowed us to not only survive on the pay cut, but actually save a decent amount of money. I'm amazed at how much we wasted before.

If you have a car payment, I highly recommend selling it and buying a cheaper used vehicle with cash. If you plan to buy a house in the next two years, I'd recommend buying it now while you actually will qualify for it.



Be prepared to have some buyers remorse. Getting the call is awesome, You'll be excited about indoc and training, OE is a new learning experience...then reality hits.

Commuting to sit reserve, riding buses through crappy parts of town to get to a crashpad or wherever you're staying, extremely boring flying, an anemic pay check. I started questioning my decision, thinking I'd made a big mistake. Fortunately, I ran into other military guys that said they felt the same way and that it will get better. It helped to know that this was a normal feeling. I told myself that I will give it at least 2 years before moving on to another industry. That alone made me start to like the job more right away, just the fact that I'm not trapped.

Not complaining or saying I'm burned out; just trying to prepare you, as I was not expecting to feel that way at all...YMMV
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Old 05-08-2014, 07:58 AM
  #34  
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Great advice/insight PRS--Thanks for the heads-up!
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:01 AM
  #35  
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The pay cut will come, either now, or later. Whether you bail at 7-10 years, 14 years (my jump off point), or after you retire, it takes 2-3 years to get back to where you were. That alone paralyzes many folks from making the jump. Guys hired in 2005 at SWA or FedEx are now pulling down 150-200k per year, and guys hired 2000-2002 are likely doing more than that. You gotta move sometime….when are you going to go?

The easiest way to offset the income loss if you bail before 20 years is to be in the ANG/AFRES. After 20? Well….side job or just suck it up. Part of having the courage to make this move is understanding the upside potential. You can make a good living at year 2-3 at the legacies. Its not overnight, but the years seem to go by for me quicker and quicker and once you cross that first year pay drop life gets a lot better. New hire life is not representative of airline life…its a transition period. Even if you go back on reserve in a few years as a junior commuting captains, you will A) be making more money and B) be a lot more familiar with the business, so this exercise in "suck" is temporary.

Part of the way I have always approached this lifestyle is realizing that just because everyone else does it one way doesn't mean you have to do it the same way. Most of my fighter alum at my company live in a crashpad with a bunch of other guys, and have a fraternity like atmosphere. I like folks, enjoy socializing, but at heart am an only child who wants a certain amount of space and autonomy. I never did the C-pad thing, but instead have used hotels when required. Many hotels offer a reasonable crew rate. If there are an bases near by your domicile, staying in the Q and working out on base and enjoy the facilities might be an option. In MEM with FedEx, I would stay at the Millington VOQ on weekends and enjoy the pool and gym, and during the week catch the specials at the resorts in Tunica for 25-40 a night. At the end of the month I doubt I was paying that much more than a guy sharing a stinky room with 2-3 beds, and….believe it or not….I ENJOYED my time on reserve/training/between trips. Empty nester? Got a good sitter? Get your wife out the house and let her crash a day or two with you in the hotel. Pretend you are starving newlyweds again and make reserve a getaway instead of a hassle. Its a mindset. Not every town will allow what I did, but there are probably angles out there worth exploring. What's an extra $100-$200 a month if it gets you your own room vice a shared room? Try not to make reserve suck, and you might have a good time. Sleeping in a room with 3 other dudes in the ghetto is not conducive to good mental health. Get a decent place, make it "fun", and enjoy having a little down time to pursue your own interests.

If you are getting out--this whole transition should not be a shock. You KNOW a pay cut is coming. Set aside some cash, and be ready to spend it when required. For some its that spending that is the hard part. To make money now, you have to be able to work. Taking care of the machinery (that's you) is just a good investment. It won't be long until you no longer need that crashpad or airport car anymore. Expenses in this industry are front loaded--the guy who can afford the nice place to stay or good car probably won't use it that much once he gets some seniority. On the other hand, you are flying the worst schedules and dealing with the most hassles….so smooth out the pain with an upfront investment to make your life easier. It gets better as time goes by.

Another little wrinkle you may not consider is you don't need as much CAR in your life since you aren't driving to/from the base every day. I've averaged about 10k a year on my truck, compared to about 20-25k year when I drove to base every day. My gas, tire, and mx costs are much less than I used to spend a decade ago. Of course, with 2 kids now driving those savings have long been spent elsewhere, but in the short term you probably won't be driving as much.

Again…get data points from others that have made the transition. But there is no rule saying that you to do it exactly like your squadron-mates did when they got hired. I have guys who have NEVER taken their wives on a trip or done a night of reserve. My wife goes on about 6-8 trips a year at least and has been to Memphis a few times with me. Pull the family into the mix and let them enjoy some of the perks of the job, and also see that its not just 5 star hotels, limos, and flight attendants when you are out on the road. If they buy-in, it makes everything a lot more fun for everyone.
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:25 PM
  #36  
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Really, the pay cut isn't that massive as a retiree. As an O-4, no bonus, with flight pay, I make around 95K. Now I am retiring with full health care and bennies. I will net around 40 a year from uncle for retiree pay and, if I play my cards right and am lucky with timing, will overlap about 4 months of getting paid full AD pay plus first year airline pay. All in all, it is pretty much a wash and I may even come out ahead. If I am able to pick up extra trips, that is money in the bank.
The key is planning and setting expectations. It took a few months to get my wife on board, but once she understood the risks and the rewards, she was committed. She knows it may mean less Starbucks next year and the kids may not go to camp or on a vacation this summer, but in 3 years, we will most certainly be making up for it. Telling her that she can fly to see her sister whenever she wants helps too!

If there is anything to be gleaned from my ranting, it is this:
Get your spouse on board. Show them the long term rewards vs the short term pain.
Manage your expectations. You and the family both need to know there are going to be sacrifices, both in pay and QOL.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:03 PM
  #37  
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Thanks Albie and E6b...hearing this stuff from guys that have been through it calms the nerves of us making the transition.
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Old 05-09-2014, 05:57 AM
  #38  
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Here is something else you might want to keep an eye on as you leave Active Duty. The tax withheld from your retired pay will assume that it is your only income and may not be enough to cover your actual taxes due in April. You may also have some issues with state income taxes that you did not have while active. It is a whole new world with lots of new things to get under control. Best of luck. It is a great journey from active duty to airline.
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:53 PM
  #39  
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Dude I'm not worthy!


Originally Posted by John 3:16 View Post
Great post! Here's what I just put on the airlineinterviews.com website for SkyWest:
As everyone else says on here, the gouge is pretty good. We had 6 dudes interview, at least 3 and maybe 5 of us did not complete the interview due to poor performance in the simulator.
Travelling to the interview: they will set up the travel for you, you have to go online and pick the flights, they will confirm them and send you the paperwork to use at the check-in counter. Many of the guys I interviewed with didn't fly in until late the night before - in my opinion a bad idea. I'd strongly recommend choosing a flight that will get you into SLC around lunchtime/early afternoon. That way you can get final prep (get your suit squared away, final review for test/tech interview, etc). Those who got in late were behind the power curve and it showed.
If you don't read and follow the instructions exactly as they are sent to you via the e-mail, they won't let you even start. Attention to detail, ability to follow simple instructions, etc. If you can't do this, maybe you shouldn't be trying to get a job where you're responsible for hundreds of lives.
One thing that really confused me - most of the guys that I interviewed with had done little prep. They were unaware of how to handle the CRM scenarios, hadn't done any simulator prep (guys were not happy with the simulator, but SkyWest sends you a PowerPoint thing that shows the cockpit layout, how to use the avionics, etc.), had not done any prep on how to do the "interview" part of the interview.
Here's what I would strongly recommend you do to prep:
  • Read all the gouge you find on here, and STUDY what they tell you to study!
  • Do a frickin simulator prep!!!! 3 guys within 30 minutes sent packing due to simulator failures. PAY FOR A FEW HOURS IN A FRASCA 142 SIMULATOR!!
  • Read and memorize "The turbine pilots manual," and the FARs.
  • Completely understand Jeppesen. I mean EVERYTHING. Every single symbol on the low charts, approach plates, high charts, EVERYTHING!
  • Know EVERYTHING about every TAF and METAR symbol, meaning, etc.
  • Understand turbine engines completely, high speed aerodynamics completely, large aircraft systems completely
  • Do an interview prep course so you know how to handle the CRM exercise and the "interview" part.
  • Bring your required paperwork in to them in a binder. This is a PROFESSIONAL job interview, and throwing a stack of rumpled up and stained paperwork at them in no particular order, forcing them to have to dig through this mess to find what they need is UNPROFESSIONAL and puts you behind the power curve before you even start
Here's the deal with SkyWest: they are not hiring warm bodies to fill seats. They are not desperate, they don't offer signing bonuses, they will cancel flights before hiring unprofessional/uncapable pilots. They are right up front about that at the start of the interview. They also make it quite clear that you have the job walking in the door, it's yours to lose. The guys who lost it (they were gone before lunch) had not prepped, had not done a simulator, didn't study the gouge, weren't aware of everything that was going to happen during the interview. It's real simple, if you want a job as a professional pilot, BE A PROFESSIONAL PILOT! Just wearing epaulets and being an instructor at a Part 141 school doesn't mean squat in that environment. If you want to be in the big leagues, YOU need to step up your game.
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:39 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by e6bpilot View Post
Really, the pay cut isn't that massive as a retiree. As an O-4, no bonus, with flight pay, I make around 95K. Now I am retiring with full health care and bennies. I will net around 40 a year from uncle for retiree pay ... All in all, it is pretty much a wash and I may even come out ahead.
E6B, I'm sure you've ran you numbers in detail, but I retired from the USAF 4 years ago (O-5 pilot), and my retirement with 22 years 1 month of service is closer to 1/3 of what I was making on AD. I know they advertise 50% at 20 years (my math is 55.2% of my base pay), but the things easily forgotten are:
- Tricare as a retiree will cost about $550 per year for the family (still an incredible price!)
- Retiree dental is about $160 per month for the family
- If you take SBP (I did), it comes out of your paycheck, too. Mine is about $260 a month.
- Life insurance: I took the VGLI when I retired; $400k coverage costs $1k per year
- Every penny you earn (military retirement, airline pay, etc.) is now taxed. This is one big gotcha, as you don't realize how big a deal all the "allowances" you were getting paid that weren't taxed. As an O-5, I paid almost nothing in taxes (I have 6 kids, so the child tax credit was HUGE!). As a retiree, I feel like Uncle Sam is having me make up for lost time in taxes, and as the kids get older, that tax credit gets less and less.

Currently, I have a job that pays well, and that plus my retirement is about the same I was making as an O-5 in gross pay. However, due to taxes and the increased expenses, my net is less than it was before.

All-in-all to say, the math I came up with prior to my retirement was my gross retired pay would be about 1/3 of my gross AD pay (with flight pay, housing allowance, COLA, etc.). Just want you to have the numbers from my experience.
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