Becoming a Military Pilot
06-30-2014, 02:16 PM
#31
Gettin paid to fly
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: BE-350
Posts: 172
Originally Posted by totaleclipse
"military will make you a better pilot without a doubt. Not that a military pilot is better than his civilian counterpart, but what we will teach you to do during your military training can not be replicated in the outside world"
Really?? I can't believe what I just read. Not only did I pay for my Bachelors and Masters ('I' do you hear me? 'I') I paid for all my flight training. Yes, in a Cessna and a Beechcraft. The list goes on and on. Yes I flew twin Turbro Props, Dash 8's, ATR's, SAAB 340's. Then I flew 50, 70 and 90 seat Passenger Jets ranging from the ERJ to the CRJ. When I got hired by SWA with an all civilian background, I had 12,000 hours total time (4 Jet type ratings) of which 5000 hours of that was PIC TURBINE alone. My civilian counterparts had 3 and 4 times the total time of the Retired Military guys. I had more PIC turbine than most Military guys had total time by a long shot. The Military men and women by in large require additional training both sim and aircraft just to make it through as new hires. You may have flown more high performance aircraft during your initial training, but you did mostly VFR and mostly a type of flying that had not one thing to do with Part 121 aviation (IE; flying passengers into Aspen/Vail/Telluride, in heavy snow; holding in a 90 passenger jet outside of Kennedy waiting for thunderstorms to pass; on and on) So to say Military makes you a better pilot is so inaccurate but part and parcel of what we as civilians have to listen to day in and day out when you guys come over to OUR world. Get humble man and spread that word. Part 121 will eat your lunch if you don't.
Really?? I can't believe what I just read. Not only did I pay for my Bachelors and Masters ('I' do you hear me? 'I') I paid for all my flight training. Yes, in a Cessna and a Beechcraft. The list goes on and on. Yes I flew twin Turbro Props, Dash 8's, ATR's, SAAB 340's. Then I flew 50, 70 and 90 seat Passenger Jets ranging from the ERJ to the CRJ. When I got hired by SWA with an all civilian background, I had 12,000 hours total time (4 Jet type ratings) of which 5000 hours of that was PIC TURBINE alone. My civilian counterparts had 3 and 4 times the total time of the Retired Military guys. I had more PIC turbine than most Military guys had total time by a long shot. The Military men and women by in large require additional training both sim and aircraft just to make it through as new hires. You may have flown more high performance aircraft during your initial training, but you did mostly VFR and mostly a type of flying that had not one thing to do with Part 121 aviation (IE; flying passengers into Aspen/Vail/Telluride, in heavy snow; holding in a 90 passenger jet outside of Kennedy waiting for thunderstorms to pass; on and on) So to say Military makes you a better pilot is so inaccurate but part and parcel of what we as civilians have to listen to day in and day out when you guys come over to OUR world. Get humble man and spread that word. Part 121 will eat your lunch if you don't.
You sir/ma'am have an enormous chip on your shoulder.
Congrats on funding your college and aviation training. I am still paying for the college that I finished almost 20 years ago. I am paying for type ratings and my ATP, just like a majority of folks...not sure your point...
I'm sorry that you feel that military pilots have wronged you and/or commercial aviation, but I think that your anger has clouded your ability to think straight. AT NO POINT DID I SAY WE WERE BETTER THAN OUR CIVILIAN COUNTERPARTS!!! What I did say, however, was that the training and the flying that you will do in the military you will not/can not do anywhere else...such as landing on a carrier...I never inferred that a military pilot can fly in the IFR structure and make weather decisions or hold better than a non-military pilot. The OP was asking about the military training path and I was talking directly about that.
I hope you see that now.
I have no problem eating humble pie (or lunch), that is another thing you learn quickly as a military pilot as well!!!
oh, and one more thing, brace for the dogpile...got to question the headwork involved with your posting this in the military section....trolling perhaps??
06-30-2014, 02:39 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Position: FO
Posts: 627
Originally Posted by totaleclipse
"military will make you a better pilot without a doubt. Not that a military pilot is better than his civilian counterpart, but what we will teach you to do during your military training can not be replicated in the outside world"
Really?? I can't believe what I just read. Not only did I pay for my Bachelors and Masters ('I' do you hear me? 'I') I paid for all my flight training. Yes, in a Cessna and a Beechcraft. The list goes on and on. Yes I flew twin Turbro Props, Dash 8's, ATR's...
Really?? I can't believe what I just read. Not only did I pay for my Bachelors and Masters ('I' do you hear me? 'I') I paid for all my flight training. Yes, in a Cessna and a Beechcraft. The list goes on and on. Yes I flew twin Turbro Props, Dash 8's, ATR's...
::coffee break::
I think the key phrase is "cannot be replicated in the outside world." Flying point A to point B with a few hiccups takes one skill set, avoiding enemy fire and conducting air to air combat etc is another skillset. If there is one thing the military does well, it teaches you how to learn in a structured environment in a short amount of time. It's a known quantity, and hence, why employers appreciate it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
06-30-2014, 02:46 PM
#33
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
Originally Posted by totaleclipse
"military will make you a better pilot without a doubt. Not that a military pilot is better than his civilian counterpart, but what we will teach you to do during your military training can not be replicated in the outside world"
Really?? I can't believe what I just read. Not only did I pay for my Bachelors and Masters ('I' do you hear me? 'I') I paid for all my flight training. Yes, in a Cessna and a Beechcraft. The list goes on and on. Yes I flew twin Turbro Props, Dash 8's, ATR's, SAAB 340's. Then I flew 50, 70 and 90 seat Passenger Jets ranging from the ERJ to the CRJ. When I got hired by SWA with an all civilian background, I had 12,000 hours total time (4 Jet type ratings) of which 5000 hours of that was PIC TURBINE alone. My civilian counterparts had 3 and 4 times the total time of the Retired Military guys. I had more PIC turbine than most Military guys had total time by a long shot. The Military men and women by in large require additional training both sim and aircraft just to make it through as new hires. You may have flown more high performance aircraft during your initial training, but you did mostly VFR and mostly a type of flying that had not one thing to do with Part 121 aviation (IE; flying passengers into Aspen/Vail/Telluride, in heavy snow; holding in a 90 passenger jet outside of Kennedy waiting for thunderstorms to pass; on and on) So to say Military makes you a better pilot is so inaccurate but part and parcel of what we as civilians have to listen to day in and day out when you guys come over to OUR world. Get humble man and spread that word. Part 121 will eat your lunch if you don't.
Really?? I can't believe what I just read. Not only did I pay for my Bachelors and Masters ('I' do you hear me? 'I') I paid for all my flight training. Yes, in a Cessna and a Beechcraft. The list goes on and on. Yes I flew twin Turbro Props, Dash 8's, ATR's, SAAB 340's. Then I flew 50, 70 and 90 seat Passenger Jets ranging from the ERJ to the CRJ. When I got hired by SWA with an all civilian background, I had 12,000 hours total time (4 Jet type ratings) of which 5000 hours of that was PIC TURBINE alone. My civilian counterparts had 3 and 4 times the total time of the Retired Military guys. I had more PIC turbine than most Military guys had total time by a long shot. The Military men and women by in large require additional training both sim and aircraft just to make it through as new hires. You may have flown more high performance aircraft during your initial training, but you did mostly VFR and mostly a type of flying that had not one thing to do with Part 121 aviation (IE; flying passengers into Aspen/Vail/Telluride, in heavy snow; holding in a 90 passenger jet outside of Kennedy waiting for thunderstorms to pass; on and on) So to say Military makes you a better pilot is so inaccurate but part and parcel of what we as civilians have to listen to day in and day out when you guys come over to OUR world. Get humble man and spread that word. Part 121 will eat your lunch if you don't.
Dang, that is cool you flew those 90 passenger jets!
Too bad you couldn't get the scholarship!
06-30-2014, 07:04 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 282
Eclipse,
You seem to be forgetting that there are many forms of military aviation. Before I had 1,200 hrs total time, I was a worldwide certified aircraft commander flying combat missions in the C-17. We flew pax, cargo, DVs, ammo, and anything else you can think of to airfields in all corners of the globe. When you're trying to understand the controllers in Kazakhstan at 2am after they've had their 10th shot of vodka you see a whole new set of challenges that you don't see in the US. Not to mention the Kyrzgys that we couldn't accept vectors from because they had a tendency to send guys uncomfortably close to the 14k ft mountain peaks nearby. Manas in the winter time = a very challenging airfield that we operated from routinely.
Oh, and when you've flown two heavy aircraft with a combined weight of about 900,000 lbs within 10ft of each other to take on a 90k on load of gas at night then we can talk about how excellent your civilian training was.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You seem to be forgetting that there are many forms of military aviation. Before I had 1,200 hrs total time, I was a worldwide certified aircraft commander flying combat missions in the C-17. We flew pax, cargo, DVs, ammo, and anything else you can think of to airfields in all corners of the globe. When you're trying to understand the controllers in Kazakhstan at 2am after they've had their 10th shot of vodka you see a whole new set of challenges that you don't see in the US. Not to mention the Kyrzgys that we couldn't accept vectors from because they had a tendency to send guys uncomfortably close to the 14k ft mountain peaks nearby. Manas in the winter time = a very challenging airfield that we operated from routinely.
Oh, and when you've flown two heavy aircraft with a combined weight of about 900,000 lbs within 10ft of each other to take on a 90k on load of gas at night then we can talk about how excellent your civilian training was.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
06-30-2014, 07:25 PM
#35
Working weekends
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by totaleclipse
"military will make you a better pilot without a doubt. Not that a military pilot is better than his civilian counterpart, but what we will teach you to do during your military training can not be replicated in the outside world"
Really?? I can't believe what I just read. Not only did I pay for my Bachelors and Masters ('I' do you hear me? 'I') I paid for all my flight training. Yes, in a Cessna and a Beechcraft. The list goes on and on. Yes I flew twin Turbro Props, Dash 8's, ATR's, SAAB 340's. Then I flew 50, 70 and 90 seat Passenger Jets ranging from the ERJ to the CRJ. When I got hired by SWA with an all civilian background, I had 12,000 hours total time (4 Jet type ratings) of which 5000 hours of that was PIC TURBINE alone. My civilian counterparts had 3 and 4 times the total time of the Retired Military guys. I had more PIC turbine than most Military guys had total time by a long shot. The Military men and women by in large require additional training both sim and aircraft just to make it through as new hires. You may have flown more high performance aircraft during your initial training, but you did mostly VFR and mostly a type of flying that had not one thing to do with Part 121 aviation (IE; flying passengers into Aspen/Vail/Telluride, in heavy snow; holding in a 90 passenger jet outside of Kennedy waiting for thunderstorms to pass; on and on) So to say Military makes you a better pilot is so inaccurate but part and parcel of what we as civilians have to listen to day in and day out when you guys come over to OUR world. Get humble man and spread that word. Part 121 will eat your lunch if you don't.
Really?? I can't believe what I just read. Not only did I pay for my Bachelors and Masters ('I' do you hear me? 'I') I paid for all my flight training. Yes, in a Cessna and a Beechcraft. The list goes on and on. Yes I flew twin Turbro Props, Dash 8's, ATR's, SAAB 340's. Then I flew 50, 70 and 90 seat Passenger Jets ranging from the ERJ to the CRJ. When I got hired by SWA with an all civilian background, I had 12,000 hours total time (4 Jet type ratings) of which 5000 hours of that was PIC TURBINE alone. My civilian counterparts had 3 and 4 times the total time of the Retired Military guys. I had more PIC turbine than most Military guys had total time by a long shot. The Military men and women by in large require additional training both sim and aircraft just to make it through as new hires. You may have flown more high performance aircraft during your initial training, but you did mostly VFR and mostly a type of flying that had not one thing to do with Part 121 aviation (IE; flying passengers into Aspen/Vail/Telluride, in heavy snow; holding in a 90 passenger jet outside of Kennedy waiting for thunderstorms to pass; on and on) So to say Military makes you a better pilot is so inaccurate but part and parcel of what we as civilians have to listen to day in and day out when you guys come over to OUR world. Get humble man and spread that word. Part 121 will eat your lunch if you don't.
06-30-2014, 07:40 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,297
Originally Posted by totaleclipse
"military will make you a better pilot without a doubt. Not that a military pilot is better than his civilian counterpart, but what we will teach you to do during your military training can not be replicated in the outside world"
Really?? I can't believe what I just read. Not only did I pay for my Bachelors and Masters ('I' do you hear me? 'I') I paid for all my flight training. Yes, in a Cessna and a Beechcraft. The list goes on and on. Yes I flew twin Turbro Props, Dash 8's, ATR's, SAAB 340's. Then I flew 50, 70 and 90 seat Passenger Jets ranging from the ERJ to the CRJ. When I got hired by SWA with an all civilian background, I had 12,000 hours total time (4 Jet type ratings) of which 5000 hours of that was PIC TURBINE alone. My civilian counterparts had 3 and 4 times the total time of the Retired Military guys. I had more PIC turbine than most Military guys had total time by a long shot. The Military men and women by in large require additional training both sim and aircraft just to make it through as new hires. You may have flown more high performance aircraft during your initial training, but you did mostly VFR and mostly a type of flying that had not one thing to do with Part 121 aviation (IE; flying passengers into Aspen/Vail/Telluride, in heavy snow; holding in a 90 passenger jet outside of Kennedy waiting for thunderstorms to pass; on and on) So to say Military makes you a better pilot is so inaccurate but part and parcel of what we as civilians have to listen to day in and day out when you guys come over to OUR world. Get humble man and spread that word. Part 121 will eat your lunch if you don't.
Really?? I can't believe what I just read. Not only did I pay for my Bachelors and Masters ('I' do you hear me? 'I') I paid for all my flight training. Yes, in a Cessna and a Beechcraft. The list goes on and on. Yes I flew twin Turbro Props, Dash 8's, ATR's, SAAB 340's. Then I flew 50, 70 and 90 seat Passenger Jets ranging from the ERJ to the CRJ. When I got hired by SWA with an all civilian background, I had 12,000 hours total time (4 Jet type ratings) of which 5000 hours of that was PIC TURBINE alone. My civilian counterparts had 3 and 4 times the total time of the Retired Military guys. I had more PIC turbine than most Military guys had total time by a long shot. The Military men and women by in large require additional training both sim and aircraft just to make it through as new hires. You may have flown more high performance aircraft during your initial training, but you did mostly VFR and mostly a type of flying that had not one thing to do with Part 121 aviation (IE; flying passengers into Aspen/Vail/Telluride, in heavy snow; holding in a 90 passenger jet outside of Kennedy waiting for thunderstorms to pass; on and on) So to say Military makes you a better pilot is so inaccurate but part and parcel of what we as civilians have to listen to day in and day out when you guys come over to OUR world. Get humble man and spread that word. Part 121 will eat your lunch if you don't.
It's actually the easiest flying I've ever done in my life. Yes there are minor challenges at times, but it doesn't even come close to the same level of challenge flying a fighter.
We fly plenty of IFR in fighters/trainers by the way, plenty of approaches down to mins, but it's single seat, with no autopilot, no magenta lines and at approach speeds typically 30 knots faster than airliners use.
With all that said, I respect guys who came up through the civilian ranks. I started on that track my self. You guys have had to put up with some crappy conditions in the regionals, and I'd have had a hard time gutting it out there. It's been a tough 14 years or so on that side of the house, I feel fortunate to be where I am now and had the opportunities that I had.
06-30-2014, 09:19 PM
#37
Get me outta here...
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Boeing right seat
Posts: 1,541
Originally Posted by totaleclipse
I had 12,000 hours total time...
My civilian counterparts had 3 and 4 times the total time of the Retired Military guys. I had more PIC turbine than most Military guys had total time by a long shot.
...when you guys come over to OUR world.
My civilian counterparts had 3 and 4 times the total time of the Retired Military guys. I had more PIC turbine than most Military guys had total time by a long shot.
...when you guys come over to OUR world.
2. See 1 above. Did you log 12000 hours??... or 1 hour 12000 times? I know bush pilots (and other civ pilots) that definitely flew in challenging conditions a high percentage of the time, and aren't "1 hour 12000 times" pilots. I know mil pilots that are in that category.
3. First of all it ISN'T "your world": you came out of piston props and small civ jets. Many of us came out of military careers. "Part 121" is its own,... And definitely not "yours".
4. Having flown military and Part 121, I'd like to know how you seem to know so much about what my training and experience was.
5. I've flown with plenty of 121 pilots from both backgrounds. Some were good, some weren't. Aviation doesn't discriminate.
6. I've got close friends that fly 121 (including my next door neighbor) and came up through the same track you did. Some of the stories are very telling in how tough it is to climb that ladder. We talk a lot about are experiences. I recommend you make friends with a former mil pilot and peel the onion back a bit. Maybe you will find we are more like you than you think.
07-01-2014, 01:53 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757/767 Capt
Posts: 642
TotalEclipse,
I'm a AF C-17 type and 757/767 Capt at the airlines, my 20 year old son is attending College for to pursue a 121 career, He has no desire to pursue the military route. Now that you know my background let me try to explain why your post is so screwed up. First, you have to understand that the military is not teaching you to fly, they are teaching you to employ an aircarft as a weapon. Allow me to explain. I can teach you to fly an F-16 in 3 days. You'll be able to take-off and land it safely. However the fact that you can fly an F-16 doesn't make you a fighter pilot. The difference is the military expects you to employ the F-16 as a weapon which means you are flying it in a high stress environment that is 100 times more stressful than holding at JFK while waiting for a T-storm to pass. I love my civilian job flying a 757/767 because its sooo easy compared to what I have to deal with in the C-17. The civilian environment is relatively standard, I get radar vectors to an ILS final most of the time. In the Air Force I'm time controlling to enter a Low-Level route at plus or minus 1 minute, then flying at 300 knots and 500 feet while map reading and avoiding SAMs, and while thats going on I have to coordinate to exit the route on time, pick up an IFR clearance and time control for an Air Refueling 2 hours later. BTW Air refueling is an incredibly intensive skill-set that many pilots have a difficult time mastering. Which brings me to my ultimate point. The military weeds out guys who can't think fast enough, or arent able to adjust to changing situations. we washed out a lot of students in UPT for this reason, and many of those guys went to the commuters and are enjoying great carreers in the civilian airlines, but they couldn't pass muster in the military. Finally the military really tests your flying skills. You can fly a hand flown raw data ILS, but that pales in comparison to landing on an aircarft carrier, or refueling at night, or even just close formation flying. My UPT class had 2 students who had over 1,000 hrs and one flew commuters/regionals but when they had to pull up to another jet 3 feet away and start manuevering they couldn't do it! they reached their limit and washed-out. He went on to become a Northwest/Delta Captain and I was glad for him when I found out because he was a great guy. You can have 12,000 hrs and fly great, but until you experience what a military pilot does, you really have zero credibility to comment.
I'm a AF C-17 type and 757/767 Capt at the airlines, my 20 year old son is attending College for to pursue a 121 career, He has no desire to pursue the military route. Now that you know my background let me try to explain why your post is so screwed up. First, you have to understand that the military is not teaching you to fly, they are teaching you to employ an aircarft as a weapon. Allow me to explain. I can teach you to fly an F-16 in 3 days. You'll be able to take-off and land it safely. However the fact that you can fly an F-16 doesn't make you a fighter pilot. The difference is the military expects you to employ the F-16 as a weapon which means you are flying it in a high stress environment that is 100 times more stressful than holding at JFK while waiting for a T-storm to pass. I love my civilian job flying a 757/767 because its sooo easy compared to what I have to deal with in the C-17. The civilian environment is relatively standard, I get radar vectors to an ILS final most of the time. In the Air Force I'm time controlling to enter a Low-Level route at plus or minus 1 minute, then flying at 300 knots and 500 feet while map reading and avoiding SAMs, and while thats going on I have to coordinate to exit the route on time, pick up an IFR clearance and time control for an Air Refueling 2 hours later. BTW Air refueling is an incredibly intensive skill-set that many pilots have a difficult time mastering. Which brings me to my ultimate point. The military weeds out guys who can't think fast enough, or arent able to adjust to changing situations. we washed out a lot of students in UPT for this reason, and many of those guys went to the commuters and are enjoying great carreers in the civilian airlines, but they couldn't pass muster in the military. Finally the military really tests your flying skills. You can fly a hand flown raw data ILS, but that pales in comparison to landing on an aircarft carrier, or refueling at night, or even just close formation flying. My UPT class had 2 students who had over 1,000 hrs and one flew commuters/regionals but when they had to pull up to another jet 3 feet away and start manuevering they couldn't do it! they reached their limit and washed-out. He went on to become a Northwest/Delta Captain and I was glad for him when I found out because he was a great guy. You can have 12,000 hrs and fly great, but until you experience what a military pilot does, you really have zero credibility to comment.
07-02-2014, 11:59 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 396
Originally Posted by totaleclipse
"military will make you a better pilot without a doubt. Not that a military pilot is better than his civilian counterpart, but what we will teach you to do during your military training can not be replicated in the outside world"
Really?? I can't believe what I just read. Not only did I pay for my Bachelors and Masters ('I' do you hear me? 'I') I paid for all my flight training. Yes, in a Cessna and a Beechcraft. The list goes on and on. Yes I flew twin Turbro Props, Dash 8's, ATR's, SAAB 340's. Then I flew 50, 70 and 90 seat Passenger Jets ranging from the ERJ to the CRJ. When I got hired by SWA with an all civilian background, I had 12,000 hours total time (4 Jet type ratings) of which 5000 hours of that was PIC TURBINE alone. My civilian counterparts had 3 and 4 times the total time of the Retired Military guys. I had more PIC turbine than most Military guys had total time by a long shot. The Military men and women by in large require additional training both sim and aircraft just to make it through as new hires. You may have flown more high performance aircraft during your initial training, but you did mostly VFR and mostly a type of flying that had not one thing to do with Part 121 aviation (IE; flying passengers into Aspen/Vail/Telluride, in heavy snow; holding in a 90 passenger jet outside of Kennedy waiting for thunderstorms to pass; on and on) So to say Military makes you a better pilot is so inaccurate but part and parcel of what we as civilians have to listen to day in and day out when you guys come over to OUR world. Get humble man and spread that word. Part 121 will eat your lunch if you don't.
Really?? I can't believe what I just read. Not only did I pay for my Bachelors and Masters ('I' do you hear me? 'I') I paid for all my flight training. Yes, in a Cessna and a Beechcraft. The list goes on and on. Yes I flew twin Turbro Props, Dash 8's, ATR's, SAAB 340's. Then I flew 50, 70 and 90 seat Passenger Jets ranging from the ERJ to the CRJ. When I got hired by SWA with an all civilian background, I had 12,000 hours total time (4 Jet type ratings) of which 5000 hours of that was PIC TURBINE alone. My civilian counterparts had 3 and 4 times the total time of the Retired Military guys. I had more PIC turbine than most Military guys had total time by a long shot. The Military men and women by in large require additional training both sim and aircraft just to make it through as new hires. You may have flown more high performance aircraft during your initial training, but you did mostly VFR and mostly a type of flying that had not one thing to do with Part 121 aviation (IE; flying passengers into Aspen/Vail/Telluride, in heavy snow; holding in a 90 passenger jet outside of Kennedy waiting for thunderstorms to pass; on and on) So to say Military makes you a better pilot is so inaccurate but part and parcel of what we as civilians have to listen to day in and day out when you guys come over to OUR world. Get humble man and spread that word. Part 121 will eat your lunch if you don't.
As I've said before, no one really knows if you are cut out to be a military pilot until "you've been there done that". Military flight training is far more demanding and challenging than that of any civilian training, at least from my experience. If/when you successfully complete various phases of pilot training (UPT, RTU, upgrade training, etc.), you are thrown to the wolves, so to speak.
As stated before, flying is second nature in the military; it's about employing the weapons system as previously stated. So you see, taking off-climbing out-leveling off-descending-flying an approach-landing the jet is really a no brainer in the world of military flying. It's what you call basics of flying, aka, point to point flying like the airline world. With 12,000 hours, one would think that you have mastered the basic fundamentals of flying but from reading your post, apparently you still struggle with it.
Sorry buddy, your comments have no credibility since you haven't "been there done that". It was pretty funny though since you just made a jackass of yourself. Thanks for a good laugh! Yeah, you do have one heck of a chip on your shoulder.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
