KC10 FATboy

No more worrying?

The FAA and the AMEs can change the procedures and tests at anytime in the future.

The part that worries me about what you're trying to do is "no more color vision testing." That's ridiculous! There are conditions you can get which cause someone to go color blind. Yes, color blindness is usually hereditary but not always

Personally I think you are making a big mistake. I would not want to fly with you. Nor would I want to put my family on an airplane in which you were flying.

JamesNoBrakes

Some Ishihara plates are such that if you are color deficient, you'll see a number.

Supposedly there are glasses now with a film that can fix the red-green issue though? Surprise side effect: New specs may fix color blindness - TODAY.com

N9373M

On one of my color tests I saw no number on the last Ishihara plate. Kinda freaked me out. Wonder if that was one of the ones you're talking about?

kronan

Umm, PF had a severe undetected color deficiency. On a VFR night, flight descended well below the 4 red PAPI angle and impacted the terrain significantly short of the rwy threshold.

Since an ILS wasn't available, not quite sure I agree.

USMCFLYR

And the other pilot without a color deficiency didn't say anything about the below glidepath situation either even if he had seen all red. It is my OPINION that the crew made a mistake during the approach that led to the mishap, but blaming the whole thing on his color deficiency is a red herring in my opinion. How many other times had he flown that approach? I don't know if he had or not. Had he flown similar approaches? Had he ever in his flying career had a problem with PAPIs - or any other light/color based visual aids?

As part of my job I fly and commission new VGSIs.
Part of that profile includes what is called a 'Clearance Below Path'
We fly all red and ensure that we don't hit anything - ensuring that if the pilot sees AT LEAST ONE white light on a PAPI-4 such as the system at KTLH he will clear all terrain. I bring this up because we fly this much lower than standard glidepath angle starting out at the range of whatever system we are testing - in this case 4 miles.

I bring this up because it is hard for me to imagine a 'professional' flight crew, without any other problems or issues, flying as low as I do as far out from the runway as I do without the air standing on ends.

It is OK if you think that this mishap was greatly affected by the PF's color deficiency and I won't try to convince you otherwise; but I will tell you why I don't believe it. In the end it is just my opinion.

Dan64456

Fatigue and not following standard procedures are to blame for that accident.. The 2 other Color Normal's on the cockpit surely would have mentioned the 4 red's.. That case is a red herring plain and simple.

Dan64456

You gave me your opinion, now I'll give you mine. If I had the choice, I wouldn't put anyone I cared about on a plane with someone like YOU flying. Anyone who flies off the handle and has a knee jerk irrational reaction concerning an issue about which they don't have the slightest understanding and then harshly criticizes someone they don't even know is not best mindset to have when it comes to flying, especially flying involving CRM.

Now that my opinion is out there, it's time for the facts. You probably already have put your family on a plane with a color vision deficient pilot! There are THOUSANDS worldwide at all levels of aviation, and growing, all operating 100% safely for decades and for tens of thousands of hours. And that's only counting the waivered population! As many deficiencies aren't noted because the FAA allows 17+ (yes that's 17 plus) acceptable color vision tests and they each have a certain false negative percentage. Surely MANY have slipped through the "cracks". Add to that if they can't pass any of those, the FAA allows the color vision "waiver" test I recommended. So if you don't agree with me it doesn't matter because the FAA apparently does. Take it up with them if you are so concerned. In my opinion, there is no safety issue here. They still check your eyes every renewal, and they even test your color vision each time (even with the Letter of Evidence) because like you said, they check for "changes to your condition" just in case. The difference here is if there are no changes, you're still good to go. They grandfather the older letters, even if the color vision testing policy changes and rightfully so.. If someone with no changes has been flying for 20+ years with no issues then why take their job away?

So maybe I misworded it by saying "no more color vision testing".. I should have mentioned the detail above (where you still get tested, but only for changes or other eye conditions).
I'm just trying to help the guy out here, as someone going through it myself.

And for the record, I pass many of the tests.. I technically don't need to go through the waiver process, but I am choosing to. This puts me under more scrutiny and ensures my abilities to see what I need to see and fly safe more than most of the flying public ever goes through. What I'm doing is preventing the need for me to track down an AME with a certain rare model vision tester each time I renew! If the FAA inspector says I'm safe, and I still get re-checked the same as everyone else, then what more can you ask for?

Viper446

So your feeling is its okay for one of 3 crewmembers to be color blind and its the responsibility of the other 2 to make up for the other deficiency? So you have taken this accident and blamed it on two other people who should have been responsible, when someone like you, should have realized they couldn't a color blindness test?

USMCFLYR

That isn't how I read what he said.

Wasn't the PF a former Navy pilot?
If he was then he had passed a color blindness test.

If the PF's color deficiency was really the ONLY cause of the mishap, then the CREW of that crewed airplane (and especially the PIC right - who was the PM - looking outside during an instrument approach).

SteveA

I used to think color blindness was an unnecessary hurdle and not that big of a deal. I've had no problems, but watched several good buds deal with the very issues yall are discussing. FWIW, nearly all modern fighters have color displays and color blindness, especially red/green, can be a significant problem. I'm grossly oversimplifying, but you shoot the red guys on your display and don't shoot the green guys. I'm sorry for the guys that have to clear this hurdle, but I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be flying with someone who struggles with certain types of color blindness.