Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Career Builder > Military
Am I being selfish? Please advise >

Am I being selfish? Please advise

Notices
Military Military Aviation

Am I being selfish? Please advise

Old 09-30-2014, 03:16 PM
  #11  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 211
Default

Originally Posted by Southern Fried View Post
Sorry for the quote, I wanted to have it handy.

I did about half my active duty time in the Navy as an enlisted avionics technician, straight out of high school. Good training, poor money and working conditions. Treated fairly but sometimes harsh. Being enlisted means giving up some freedom and being told what to do 24/7 your first few years until you get promoted to NCO. At that point your life will improve but you are still enlisted. During my enlistment, I managed to finish 3 years of college towards a BS degree and get my tickets up through CFI at the Navy flying club. I left the Navy voluntarily as an E-6, Petty Officer First Class.

Second half of 20 years was as an Army Warrant Officer, flying Blackhawks. Best decision I could have made at the time. You are treated with respect and given freedom that you won't see as an enlisted man. Better money and quality of life for me and my family was noticeably better. Added benefit of being able to fly for a living, sort of. I retired from the Army as a Chief Warrant Officer 3 (CW3).

Whether you are enlisted or officer, the needs of the service come first. What you want is secondary, at best. Will your requests and desires be granted? Sometimes. You will typically be given a few choices and have to pick one for training and/or base assignment. Remember that I am talking about active duty here.

QOL for you and your family will vary based on whether you are at home or deployed. Financially you are stable and your income is predictable. When you are deployed, you may not see your family for a year. Plans must be made for how they will be taken care of in your absence. Benefits and services on base are adequate, but who will fix a leaking faucet? There are many things to consider when you have a family to take care of.

Having said all of that, your decision to serve your country is admirable. I wish more of our young citizens had your mindset. However, you are now in a position to comfortably take care of your family. Right now, that is your primary responsibility. You will be able to support your family as an officer, but as an enlisted man you will struggle for a few years until you can get promoted to an NCO rank (generally E-5 and higher). Without a college degree, options are limited in terms of being an officer. Without a degree, you can still be an Army Warrant Officer and fly if that's what you want.

Just remember that it's no longer just you. Your life is now dedicated to taking care of your wife and children. That's forever, by the way. If you were single, I'd say it's a no-brainer. Being a husband and father makes your decision impact them as well. You sound like you are an intelligent young man who cares for his wife and children. If I were in your shoes with no degree and a family to support, I would not consider enlistment. If you are determined to serve, decide what's more important to you: being a leader (commissioned officer), or do you want to fly? If you are more concerned with being a leader and developing your management skills, I'd say you need to get your degree first and then volunteer to be a commissioned officer (you can also be a pilot). If you just want to make the leap and are more focused on being a pilot, I'd say volunteer to be an Army Warrant Officer as an aviator. I advise against being an enlisted man in your current situation.

Whatever decision you make, be very careful when it comes time to sign the papers. Make sure you know what you are volunteering for! Also, remember that once you sign those papers, you are committed to the service. You will do what you are told, or face the consequences. There is no such thing as quitting (without severe consequences). Life gets better after training and you have learned your specialty, but you belong to Uncle Sam regardless.

Good luck.

Edit: I just remembered reading that you have color blindness. Have you determined if this will disqualify you for a flight slot in the military? You must find out where you stand with that before moving forward. Medical issues are difficult at best to overcome as a flight candidate. I'll leave those parts of my post for those who might be interested. BTW, there are some interesting IT careers in the military, both Enlisted and Officer.
Thank you very much for all of the information! I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

To clarify a couple things, I am 100% finishing my 4-year degree before anything happens. This was a "what will i do after i finish" thought process.

As far as my vision goes, I'm not sure. I was told at an early age that I am red-green colorblind. I suck at the book with the numbers, i can barely do any. But regardless of that, I ended up with a 1st-class medical during my ppl training, so I have no idea how the military check-out would work.

Well, i am not really so picky on what I want to do. At first, I wanted to fly in the military. That was my goal throughout middle-school and high school. But I gave up and got serious about getting a good financial foundation when my wife became pregnant. I want to put them first.

I'd love to fly, or it'd be an honor to become a soldier.

It sounds dumb but I grew up in the new privelaged generation, and I hate it. Day in and day out seeing social media, news, and articles outlining every petty problem in our society, taking our freedoms for granted, or confusing them with privelage. I guess it's just my opinion based off of my upbringing, but for some reason (which i fully can't put into words), it motivates me even more to join.
evamodel00 is offline  
Old 09-30-2014, 04:19 PM
  #12  
Furlough Fodder
 
FSF17's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Position: 320A
Posts: 117
Default

Is it selfish? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how you approach it.

First off, if you want to be a military pilot and you have your degree, at least in the Navy, you apply for that, and if you don't get a pilot slot, you don't have to join. It's not like ROTC or the academy where you might end up driving a boat against your wishes. I'm not sure if they give the color blindness test at MEPS, but they do have alternatives besides the book with the numbers. I'd advise doing some more research on the color blindness tests approved and administered by the different services. That might make this question a moot point.

Secondly, if both you and your wife weigh the pros and cons and conclude that making you a military pilot/grunt/boat driver/desk jockey is the best course of action for your family... then it is most certainly not selfish. If you join without her knowing exactly what will be required of her and your family, then it is selfish.

The military can be a very good deal. It could also be a tremendous and insurmountable obstacle for your family/marriage. It depends on what you guys want out of life.
FSF17 is offline  
Old 09-30-2014, 05:05 PM
  #13  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 281
Default

First thing is to see if you can pass the USAF or USN flight physical. If you are offered a slot at Officers Candidate School it will come with a career field attached. That is to say they cannot offer you a pilot training slot and then move you into something else without giving you the option of getting out altogether.
F4E Mx is offline  
Old 09-30-2014, 05:08 PM
  #14  
Gets Weekends Off
 
PRS Guitars's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,295
Default

I joined at age 28 with a wife and first child on the way. Best thing I ever did (other than marrying said wife and having my kids).

I wouldn't worry about what your parents think. This is about your immediate family now.

If you are waiting until after you get your degree, then do NOT enlist. Apply to OTS/OCS. You have to use an officer ascension recruiter (if you go to the wrong recruiter, they will try to get you to enlist, and will tell you that it's the only way in...they are lying). If you truly don't care what job you do, you'll very likely get picked up as an officer candidate. You will have a much more comfortable life as an officer (just google military pay rates and you'll see).

If you do try for pilot (AF anyway). You will first apply for OTS with a pilot slot. they will then either hire you as a pilot candidate or offer you another job or not hire you at all. If hired as a pilot, they will send you to an AF base for a physical. This physical will be much more stringent than the standard MEPS physical that someone else mentioned. You will take the color blind test and if you fail, you can retake or take another job or walk away. Most bases are going to a new computer test and it is difficult. I've never had a problem with the book test, but had to pause a few times during this new test. If you pass that, you'll have a basic MEPS physical, go to OTS and then go to Brooks for a battery of personality and IQ tests (used for data purposes only) a heart scan, and more intensive eye exams. The latter two categories can DQ you from being a pilot. If that happens you will be reassigned another job and incur a 4 year commitment.
PRS Guitars is offline  
Old 09-30-2014, 08:01 PM
  #15  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 242
Default

Eva, glad to read that you are going to finish your degree first. Do NOT enlist, as PRS said.

About flying/passing the medical. What PRS said is absolutely true. You may be able to pass an entrance physical, then DQ later after being in training. During flight training, you will take more than one physical. We called them class 1 physicals. They are very thorough. Apparently the first one is what they called a class 1A physical. It was compared to an astronaut candidate's physical. They aren't playing around, it was the most thorough physical I've ever had. While I was at Fort Rucker, we had at least three out 30 candidates fail their physical while in training and subsequently pulled from training.

If you decide to go for it, your attitude will serve you well. Our country and our military needs people just like you.
Southern Fried is offline  
Old 09-30-2014, 09:35 PM
  #16  
Get me outta here...
 
HuggyU2's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Boeing right seat
Posts: 1,541
Default

Not selfish. Pragmatic. With 1 semester to go, get your degree and get a commission. Do not enlist.
I know plenty of guys that got on active duty after starting a family. My UPT tablemate is one, and he did great: he is a well respected General officer now.
HuggyU2 is offline  
Old 10-01-2014, 02:00 AM
  #17  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Spike from flyi's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: B777; Left Seat.
Posts: 253
Default

Before you do anything, read this thread:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mi...blindness.html

Truly selfish people do not ask themselves if they're being selfish.

When you got married, you took a step away from self, and made a commitment to someone else. Being a father requires you to be less selfish (if you're going to do it well). Military service (with the possible exception of the Air Force) requires selflessness.

Right now, there is a bit of a poisoned environment in the DoD. This administration is committed to destroying it. Manning levels will be cut drastically, while workload and mission optempo are increasing. Good people will almost certainly be leaving in droves. Still, we will need good (selfless) people to serve and to be the continuity for rebuilding when times get better (we've been through this before).

Good luck. Flying is cool, but there are a lot of other good jobs and skills you can acquire through military service. If you do go in, please remember to look out for yourself and your family. The services are expert at getting more from you than they give, so don't worry too much about them. Don't leave your wife and kid with a medal and a flag.
Spike from flyi is offline  
Old 10-01-2014, 03:29 AM
  #18  
Banned
 
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Default

I agree with most of the other posters. Here are a few more random thoughts:

1. If you want to be a pilot, DO NOT accept an assignment to any other specialty. My recruiter told me that if I wanted a pilot slot to sign up for a NFO slot to enhance my chances of being accepted. I would have been accepted all right...as an NFO. NFO to Pilot transitions were few and far between in my day.

2. The military has a plethora of family support services. Your family will be well taken care of, especially since your wife has employment that is not geographic specific.

3. All that said, I heartily recommend you investigate Air National Guard units who fly the kind of planes you are most interested in. If you are accepted by that unit, you are GUARANTEED to fly that jet. No flight training grade/what pipeline is available crap shoot.

Joining the military was the best thing I ever did. It gave me the discipline I sorely lacked in my life and paved the way for my subsequent airline career.

Selfish? Not hardly. I salute you for your ambition even if it doesn't come to fruition. At least you have the gumption to consider service to your country. That puts you head and shoulders ABOVE the typical slug of your generation.
Packrat is offline  
Old 10-02-2014, 06:59 AM
  #19  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Vito's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757/767 Capt
Posts: 641
Default

Do It! but get your degree first and enter as an Officer. I finished my first year of Law School and joined the Air Force to pursue a dream (I was single) these 2 quotes inspired me.

"You can't steal second, and keep one foot on first base"

"Most Men lead lives of quiet desperation"

I didn't want to be one of the thousands of people I meet every day who tell me how much they wanted to Fly, Join the Military etc etc but "You know I got married and kids" Now he sells insurance, mortgages, farm supplies, surgical tubing etc...Lives of quiet desperation. Shoulda coulda!
Good Luck!
Vito is offline  
Old 10-02-2014, 07:10 AM
  #20  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 281
Default

In rereading the OP he states that he wants to serve perhaps regardless of whether or not he gets a pilot's slot. In that case an Air Force career in the IT field would be golden. Even after an initial commitment he could leverage his top secret clearance into any number of civilian jobs and stay in the Reserves or Air Guard. A tour as a Navigator (they shoudda kept the term) wouldn't hurt either if the color blindness would allow that career in addition to the computer career field.
F4E Mx is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
210RG
Flight Schools and Training
3
07-11-2007 01:34 PM
Airplane Crazy
Regional
40
06-20-2007 09:41 PM
lpcunity
Fractional
5
11-14-2006 06:14 AM
Bocaflyer
Major
25
03-26-2006 07:59 AM
cloudkicker1981
Cargo
5
01-09-2006 02:26 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices