UAL T38 Phlyer

I don't waste a stamp or kill a tree, either. Email; very easy....google "write your congressman/Senator." Gov-site; enter your zipcode, boom.

I agree that most of the time, it is as symbolic and pointless as the guy staring down the tank at Tianemen Square.

But there are successes. Due mostly, if not solely, to a grass-roots effort, Congress has forced the Air Force to keep the A-10 at least one more year.

They've also seen how far the Air Force will stoop to try and save this monstrosity. They've been exposed as disingenuous if not outright liars. I'm sure the Navy and Marines are right in step.

This thing should have met the same fate as the A-12.

Congress (and ALPA) only listen when a sizable audience complains and a threshold is met. Write; you might be the proverbial straw.

John Carr

I can't remember but I thought it was you that make the joke in a similar thread a while ago. Something along the lines of;

Just by the latest Russian made jets and equip them with the U.S. electronics, sensors, PFM, wizards and spells and call it done.

Grumble

Wasn't me, but a Flanker stuffed with all the toys in the JSF would make a formidable fighter.

The JSF is a lot of amazing technology wrapped in a mediocre airframe that they're trying to do way too much with. If the Hornet should've taught us anything, it's that the more multi-role you try and get, the more everything suffers.

UAL T38 Phlyer

Watched the Flanker do a demo at Boscombe-Down (UK) back in '94.

I was VERY impressed.

sailingfun

You might not be if you really got a chance to study it.

UAL T38 Phlyer

I have.

It is a near-equal in maneuverability to the F-22; F-22 might have a slight edge. Weapons: AA-10 and AA-11 are impressive in range and off-boresite capability.

Cockpit ergonomics are nowhere near US standards, especially in ease of radar use, although I think their helmet-mounted sight is superior (been fielded longer and seems to work).

Maintenance? I think airframe would be strong, avionics average. Russian engines do not last as long as Western engines, but seem to be pretty stout. Watching the Flanker fly backwards in afterburner and not compressor stall is a loud testament to aerodynamic design, not only of the intake, but the front of the engine.

It's not stealthy. On the other hand, it is only about one-fourth the cost of an F-22.

80ktsClamp

The cost of an F-35 is now above the cost of the F-22 from what I've read.

rickair7777

No. Maybe if you divide R&D costs by the number in limited service today you could get a figure that big, but once they make thousands of the things the R&D will be amortized across a much larger number, and per-unit production costs will come down.

Still not cheap, or good taxpayer value IMO. I'm just about a proponent of scrapping it, buying some souped up 4.5 gen fighters and focusing R&D on a 5.5 or 6 gen system. The only thing that gives me pause on that is that so many of our allies are committed to the thing, and unfortunately it's probably worth pizzing a lot of money into the wind in order to maintain good relations with them.

Brilliant marketing scheme on the part of lockmart and their political hired guns...not only too big to fail, but too diverse to fail. The USAF of course gets credit for complete lack of discipline and oversight in a spiral development program (spiral development = spiral costs). Of course a lot of the spiral occurred post-9/11 when the sky was the limit on defense spending.

Fluglehrer

Sounds like the start of a dystopian novel. I think the incredible avionics in a not-so-stellar airframe is something like what the mods did to their scooters. I hope we don't have to reach any deeper into our kid's piggy bank to pay for this, or we may need all those mirrors to look back on better days.

How to Become an Obnoxious Mod in Five Easy Steps | Mole Empire

DangaZone

Taxpayers should be absolutely furious about this, and Lockheed should be fully held to account for their FAILURES in both the F-22 and F-35 programs.

Cost overruns, O2 doesn't work, plane doesn't operate well in weather, plane can't use hot fuel, payload sucks, etc etc...