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Tips to not F away the transition

Old 12-16-2014, 07:58 PM
  #11  
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Brothers and sisters, I really appreciate the help. It sounds like most people recommend to FOS twice rather than resign. I see my choice as two scenarios.

First, some facts. Delta (my first choice) wants to hire 622 people in 2014, roughly 50 a month. In 2016, my MSR, they will retire 225 pilots and increase that to 286 in 2017.

1) Resign. Stay at my cushy shore tour and extend five months to cover PRD to MSR; the last two months will be terminal leave.

PROS: I can drive to most airline interviews and have pretty good control over my schedule. Continue civilian multi-engine CFI-ing on the side to maintain currency. Use chill time to drive around, rush, and pick up a reserve or ANG job. Get out right at MSR, at my absolute earliest point, take two months terminal leave while classing up with a major, thereby obtaining the best seniority number possible.

CONs: Forefeit $70k severance. Potentially forfeit $25-50k of the bonus as well, if I take that.

2) Get pushed out (FOSx2). Play the game, and allow the Navy to move me June 2016 to where ever that may be. Second FOS notification comes out July 2016 and says I have 7 months to leave.

PROs: $70k severeance. Potentially $50k on top of that of DH bonus. That adds up to a sick down payment on a new crib. Longer time in service as a march towards 20 years (to be added to reserve time). Potential for better networking.

CONs: I will have no idea where I may be moved or what I will be doing (Disassociated Sea Tour). I may leave before getting called up for an interview and have issues getting to one. Rushing reserve/guard units may be relegated to e-mail. I will likely fall out of currency prior to the interviews. Leaving 7 months after FOSx2 means classing up for the airlines a minimum of four months later, which could be 200 people behind. (I think that's significant)

Does this work as an option 3? Go with option 2, and try to get interviews while on shore tour. If I get hired, allow the Navy to make me PCS to next tour, and let the Navy FOS me out. If I don't get hired prior to PCS, summarily drop my letter (but I may be behind timeline for this and possibly **** off BUPERS) so I can remain at my shore tour. Additionally, I could see me giving the airlines a really fuzzy "can start working date" since I won't know exactly when the Navy will let me go.
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:16 PM
  #12  
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If you run out of currency, then you will have to spend some time at a regional or other job to get it back. Of course, if you have money in the bank, this will be much easier.

Time is money, brother. Every year that you spend waiting for the Navy to maybe kick you out is a year that you aren't earning widebody captain pay at the end of your career. It could also mean the difference between having a job and being on the street furloughed.

If I were in your position, I would start preparing to get out now, put some feelers out with selres units, and start dropping apps. Even if you don't get hired immediately, you can get paid pretty well as a reserve bum. In the meantime, you will be available and current and not wasting away on a boat somewhere. I would bail as soon as you can. Waiting may get you a little cash in the short term, but will probably make your situation more difficult and will definitely not be the smart financial move long term if the airlines are really what you want to do.
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:53 PM
  #13  
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If you are a one time FOS, they often won't PCS you until you either make it or get separation orders.
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:59 PM
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Also, four months seniority helps, but what's your total time and realistically how close are you to the top of the applicants stack.

I'll play devils advocate here, and say for four months you are better off with the $70k in case you have to go to the regionals.

I've got 2500 military hours. 1250 of that is turbine multi engine.

Not one call. I know Delta likes Fighter Attack Guys but I don't know what sort of hours you can realistically expect a call at.

I know as a helo turned hummer clown, only the regionals have been calling with my hours.
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Old 12-17-2014, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by E2CMaster View Post
If you are a one time FOS, they often won't PCS you until you either make it or get separation orders.
So...are you saying there is no gamemanship to make this happen? If I get passed over once I will just sit tight and automatically get extended at my current shore tour?

Originally Posted by E2CMaster View Post
Also, four months seniority helps, but what's your total time and realistically how close are you to the top of the applicants stack.

I'll play devils advocate here, and say for four months you are better off with the $70k in case you have to go to the regionals.

I've got 2500 military hours. 1250 of that is turbine multi engine.

Not one call. I know Delta likes Fighter Attack Guys but I don't know what sort of hours you can realistically expect a call at.

I know as a helo turned hummer clown, only the regionals have been calling with my hours.
I'll be honest, your case worries me, Master. They must have completely disregarded your rotary time as total time. I've heard stories of Harrier dudes with 500 fleet hours doing one IP tour in T-45s and going with Delta with 1500-2000 total, and that's ALL single engine!
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:08 AM
  #16  
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No gamesmanship.

They do completely disregard rotary time. Cessna 152 time counts. H60 does not.

I've got 4200TT, but only 1550ish fixed wing.

1250 of that is multi, all but 39 of the multi is turbine. (Some Seminole, Baron and Twin Bonanza time)

I'm flying ISR C-12s as a contractor. Internal recs at Hawaiian and United. Two Delta retired captain recs.

Not a peep from the majors.

ATP, 737 type, S70 type, could add a BE300 type. Plus commercial helo and single engine privileges.

Not a single call from a major. Can't afford to work at a regional.

I could always go back to the oil industry as an engineer I guess.

My plan is if I'm not hired by a major by age 40 (36 in a month), I'll move on.

Getting forced out at 14.5 years kind of put me in financial no man's land.
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Old 12-18-2014, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by E2CMaster View Post
If you are a one time FOS, they often won't PCS you until you either make it or get separation orders.
So...are you saying there is no gamemanship to make this happen? If I get passed over once I will just sit tight and automatically get extended at my current shore tour?

Originally Posted by E2CMaster View Post
Also, four months seniority helps, but what's your total time and realistically how close are you to the top of the applicants stack.

I'll play devils advocate here, and say for four months you are better off with the $70k in case you have to go to the regionals.

I've got 2500 military hours. 1250 of that is turbine multi engine.

Not one call. I know Delta likes Fighter Attack Guys but I don't know what sort of hours you can realistically expect a call at.

I know as a helo turned hummer clown, only the regionals have been calling with my hours.
I'll be honest, your case worries me, Master. They must have completely disregarded your rotary time as total time. I've heard stories of Harrier dudes with 500 fleet hours doing one IP tour in T-45s and going with Delta with 1500-2000 total, and that's ALL single engine!
Correct. Rotary at most places doesn't compute. His case is not standard. Apply and network, you'll be fine, hope you have your ATP complete.
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Old 12-18-2014, 09:17 AM
  #18  
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I saw you also posted in the majors about availability date, and that your top choice is DAL. Do not mess with DAL about your availability date. The one thing they constantly emphasized during training was honesty. If you lie about your availability to get a quick interview and then make up some BS trying to get some crappy severance check you're being penny-wise and pound-foolish. DAL hires lots of military guys, therefore they also know all the military rules. If you aren't completely forthright on your application they will smell it out and you could find yourself in some hot water.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeF16 View Post
I saw you also posted in the majors about availability date, and that your top choice is DAL. Do not mess with DAL about your availability date. The one thing they constantly emphasized during training was honesty. If you lie about your availability to get a quick interview and then make up some BS trying to get some crappy severance check you're being penny-wise and pound-foolish. DAL hires lots of military guys, therefore they also know all the military rules. If you aren't completely forthright on your application they will smell it out and you could find yourself in some hot water.
Great advice. I appreciate the experienced perspective.
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:20 PM
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I've known two guys that twice FOS'ed for O-4, went SELRES, made O-4, O-5, and screened for squadron command. Never know how things will work out. Good luck.
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