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Old 05-04-2015, 03:40 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine View Post
Almost 4000 hours in the F-16 and one of the most consistently terrifying things in the airplane was instructing a newbie on his first night AAR from the back seat, followed by a backseat night landing.

Really, it was less comfortable than a dentist chair. I was always untying the knots in my toes afterwards.

On deployment, when you'd refuel several times a flight, it actually gets to be quite uneventful. Especially if the boomers are proficient; a fact frequently overlooked. Proficient confident boomers make refueling go WAY faster. Timid boomers can ruin your night.

Hell, there's usually more funny stories about blown tanker rejoins than actual refueling. Remember! Never go two circle with a tanker above 20,000, he might out-rate you!
Agree, pretty much everything about sitting in the back sucked, the night made it suck and scary to boot. I had 2 flights where I had to put the student on the boom and let him take it from there. That was cleared solo in my book -- didn't want to make anybody else sit through that abomination!!!
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Old 05-04-2015, 04:23 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine View Post
.....Really, it was less comfortable than a dentist chair. I was always untying the knots in my toes afterwards.

On deployment, when you'd refuel several times a flight, it actually gets to be quite uneventful. Especially if the boomers are proficient; a fact frequently overlooked. Proficient confident boomers make refueling go WAY faster. Timid boomers can ruin your night.

Hell, there's usually more funny stories about blown tanker rejoins than actual refueling. Remember! Never go two circle with a tanker above 20,000, he might out-rate you!
All the above is true, and the bold is FACT in a three-bag F-4! Beak to Beak, and just about to start your turn, and 69% of the time, HE would turn into you. We called it "Tanker BFM."

When we found out they turned at a certain A/A TACAN DME, we just stopped using the TACAN, and often just told him we'd do the turn ourselves.
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:17 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ExAF View Post
That's funny....I always thought it was easier to do the plugging.
I'll bet you've got a tanker story or two.
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:20 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG View Post
I'll bet you've got a tanker story or two.
Mmmmmmmmmmabe.....

You'll never hear me talking down to a tanker toad.
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:28 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine View Post
Almost 4000 hours in the F-16 and one of the most consistently terrifying things in the airplane was instructing a newbie on his first night AAR from the back seat, followed by a backseat night landing.

Really, it was less comfortable than a dentist chair. I was always untying the knots in my toes afterwards.

On deployment, when you'd refuel several times a flight, it actually gets to be quite uneventful. Especially if the boomers are proficient; a fact frequently overlooked. Proficient confident boomers make refueling go WAY faster. Timid boomers can ruin your night.

Hell, there's usually more funny stories about blown tanker rejoins than actual refueling. Remember! Never go two circle with a tanker above 20,000, he might out-rate you!
Agree with most of what you said. I was never a backseat IP, so I would say getting shot at by Serbian SAMs was a little more scary than getting gas ... BUT, on the other hand, we did take an informal poll in the squadron a couple of weeks into the war (Allied Force, 1999), and the consensus that the most dangerous part of each mission was getting to / from the tanker ... Too many jets around and too many not following the procedures, too often the ATO changed and you didn't know. I remember one night that I rejoined on what was supposed to be my tanker, but it ended up being the wrong tanker in the wrong track--something I figured out after I was on the boom and getting gas! Good on the boomer for getting the mission done.

On another mission (the night Vega 31 went down), when my 3 hour OCA mission turned into a 7.7 hour RESCAP, I once rejoined on a KC-135 ... That was dragging a drogue, so had to go find a proper one with a boom instead!
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Old 05-05-2015, 03:33 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by F15Cricket View Post
Agree with most of what you said. I was never a backseat IP, so I would say getting shot at by Serbian SAMs was a little more scary than getting gas ... BUT, on the other hand, we did take an informal poll in the squadron a couple of weeks into the war (Allied Force, 1999), and the consensus that the most dangerous part of each mission was getting to / from the tanker ...
I've done both, a student's first night trip to the tanker was worse since I was pretty certain that all the SAMs and AAA shot at me weren't going to result in any sort of collision. Besides, when did you guys go anywhere near a MEZ, it doesn't count if you're watching the enemy shoot at your SEAD and you're 100 NM away...
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Old 05-05-2015, 04:24 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine View Post
Almost 4000 hours in the F-16 and one of the most consistently terrifying things in the airplane was instructing a newbie on his first night AAR from the back seat, followed by a backseat night landing.

Really, it was less comfortable than a dentist chair. I was always untying the knots in my toes afterwards.

On deployment, when you'd refuel several times a flight, it actually gets to be quite uneventful. Especially if the boomers are proficient; a fact frequently overlooked. Proficient confident boomers make refueling go WAY faster. Timid boomers can ruin your night.

Hell, there's usually more funny stories about blown tanker rejoins than actual refueling. Remember! Never go two circle with a tanker above 20,000, he might out-rate you!
This is precisely why we in the Navy send our students to the tanker (day/night) and to the ship (day/night) for their first time solo...
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Old 05-05-2015, 07:11 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by F15Cricket View Post
Agree with most of what you said. I was never a backseat IP, so I would say getting shot at by Serbian SAMs was a little more scary than getting gas ... BUT, on the other hand, we did take an informal poll in the squadron a couple of weeks into the war (Allied Force, 1999), and the consensus that the most dangerous part of each mission was getting to / from the tanker ... Too many jets around and too many not following the procedures, too often the ATO changed and you didn't know. I remember one night that I rejoined on what was supposed to be my tanker, but it ended up being the wrong tanker in the wrong track--something I figured out after I was on the boom and getting gas! Good on the boomer for getting the mission done.

On another mission (the night Vega 31 went down), when my 3 hour OCA mission turned into a 7.7 hour RESCAP, I once rejoined on a KC-135 ... That was dragging a drogue, so had to go find a proper one with a boom instead!
Good grief. Are fighters still getting sent to drogue equipped tankers by mistake? This happened a couple of times in Vietnam (no big deal for a Thud) until someone decided to add Papa to all the call signs of the guys with a drogue installed. Made things go a lot smoother. Guess we will just keep reinventing the wheel until all the KC-135s are gone.
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Old 05-05-2015, 11:29 AM
  #29  
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And the guy going to the night tanker....adjusting his seat height...and the canopy departed the a/c....hmmmm.....

That's one way to get out of tankering.
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Old 05-05-2015, 02:09 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by BDGERJMN View Post
This is precisely why we in the Navy send our students to the tanker (day/night) and to the ship (day/night) for their first time solo...
We had guest tanker help one time for day and night plugs. Went down to one aircraft, so I hot seated 4 students one after another through the day plugs.
I demo'ed one plug (amazing what a great sight picture it is sitting so far back) and then all four guys did outstanding with very few aborts or misses. Monkey see - monkey do was certainly a player that night.

I was wiped out after those 4 flights though and we canceled the night tanking since I was still the only IP around.
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