Chuckie

So, I'm sitting here in TAP class (Transition Assistance Program, mandated by Big Blue for separating service members) and our presenter is saying that letters of recommendation aren't really needed or wanted by employers any more. She makes the good point that they quickly become dated and it's better just to have the contact info for the employer to use as references.

Now, I know that internal recommendations are invaluable in getting on with the airlines, but what about external ones? I haven't actually applied yet (waiting on my ATP) and I haven't approached my "home run hitters" about writing a letter for me yet. For the successful airline guys here, could you write a few tidbits about how you handled this side of the application process? Did you limit your rec sources from one airline to just that airline, or did they write you a generic letter that you used at all of them? How many did you get? Did any of you have a less-than-stellar commander that you'd rather not get a letter from, and how did you handle that?

/sits here bored in class. Thank goodness for Wi-Fi!

showmepilot

All of my letters were submitted in airlineapps and pilotcredentials. I have some generic references attached to the main application (airlineapps) and then each airline has an addendum. That is where I targeted pilots from within that airline. You enter the email address of who you want to submit the letter and they get a link to follow that will populate their letter into the proper place.

I have some hard copy letters of recommendation from my commander and a few others, but I haven't found a place to use them yet.

Adlerdriver

I don't know the situation with other employers, but from my experience LORs are still desired by many airlines. I know my current employer still accepts, expects and values LORs from current employees.

LORs from previous commanders are probably not worth attempting to submit for an airline application, IMO. Most airlines seem to want to hear from their employees, not someone they don't know. If you absolutely have no one in your network at that airline and they require an LOR, it will fill the square but I seriously doubt it's going to carry much horsepower.

Getting a position with an ANG unit can expand your network in a big way as well as ease the transition to a spot with a major airline. In addition to the help getting hired, the next 10 years or so will go by fast and it's rare to encounter someone who regrets sticking it out for the G/R mil retirement.

It may be difficult to consider sticking it out in the ANG or reserves, especially when things seem so rosy at all the airlines scooping up thousands of pilots per year. The same thing was happening in 2001 too. One day guys were starting their new life at their dream job and the next they were on the street looking for a plan B. If you have the option, it's definitely worth considering. Good luck.

Sputnik

I will say that while I thought TAP was pretty decent overall, it was almost completely worthless in regards to airline hiring.

The in's and out's of getting an airline job seemed very different than most other jobs. Your experience seems to confirm that.

Chuckie

Thanks for the info. Luckily, I have sources for recs at all of the places I am considering to apply at. I just didn't know if the generic non-employee LORs matter much. It sounds like they might not, which actually makes things easier for me.

Funny you mention the ANG.....I am a Guard baby, 23 years in. I'm being put out of the military on a medical, so staying in isn't an option (but the medical has it's own benefits in the event of a furlough/etc).

Chuckie

Our presenter here is actually pretty up to speed on the Airline side of things. I guess there had been a lot of pilots go through her classes before that were in the same boat that I am. She had some good critiques for my resume that were airline-specific that I hadn't thought about.

So not a COMPLETE waste of time

okawner

For my airlineapps and pilotcredentials accounts, I used a mix of internal and external recs. For UAL, I used all internals because I know lots of people there. For DAL and AA I used both internals and externals because I don't have as many contacts there. I also got a couple of hard copy letters from former CCs that I attached to the three pilotcredentials accounts along with my resume. I know that SWA will ask for internal recs after the interview invite. As with most things related to airline interview selection and hiring, the "right" thing to do seems to be difficult to suss out.

1Seat 1Engine

4 years out of the military and I'm still getting calls for LOR s from dudes I worked with. I guess they're still important or I wouldn't have filled out so many in the last month.

Rosey

For what it's worth... I and several others who were hired within the same timeframe got invitations to interview with no internal recommendations. For me, I simply hadn't gotten around to asking my buds already working here yet but did get those quickly enough before the interview (not that it probably mattered at that point). I did have very strong and well written letters from former COs and peers. So for me and a few others, strength of record, qualifications and such (all discussed on the company's website) won the day. Pilot selection folks have told me that internal recs are not a bad thing but they don't seem to be a must have sort of thing.

As far as who to ask for a letter, you can - and should - be picky about who you ask.

Heed

I part-time CFI and I have been getting hit with folks wanting to do ATP training recently. I have turned away several in the last month as our school is closing.

That got me to thinking about system capacity and I looked up some stats this week.

Normally there are 5-8,000 ATP knowledge tests per year. Last year their were well over 25,000!! Who knows how many of those had the aeronautical experience to take the practical.

It's not easy to figure out the total number of DPE's and FAA examiners, but I think it is around 2,000 (found an article that said there 1,600 DPEs). Only some of those 2,000 examiners can do ATP practicals. After clicking through about 30 of the 120 "location codes" on the FAA site, it was roughly 1/3 of the listed DPE's could do ATP practicals. Interestingly, it didn't list the FAA examiners.

My school did knowledge tests and they were getting calls from overseas and other states hoping to find an "open slot" to take the test last year. A lot of folks missed out as the knowledge test demand exceeded capacity. That could be a predictor of the demand vs. capacity on the practical. It's a heck of a lot easier to schedule and take the written.

The point of the above is that if you are knowledge test complete and meet the aeronautical experience requirements, get the practical done as soon as possible. The last two months of our CATS schedule was booked solid, so it's a fair bet the number of folks taking the practical will ramp up over the next 14 months when we approach the two-year mark where the rules changed.

I started about 14 months out and I wished I would have started sooner. Tracking down the bubbas to get LoR's, getting details of my work history back to college, going through my logbooks, etc. took a lot longer than I expected. Albie has two great posts that I found helpful and got me going at the 14 month mark:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hi...e-corners.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mi...11-update.html

Good Luck!