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Advice needed.. another Mil to Civ...

Old 06-22-2015, 10:30 AM
  #1  
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Default Advice needed.. another Mil to Civ...

Yep, another new guy with questions…thanks in advance for all the advice. I’ve scoured most of the threads on this site. Great info.

I’m at the 22-year point and have decided to get out next summer, would start 3+ months of terminal leave Jun 2016, and a retirement date of Oct 2016. I’m in a flying billet (not as much flying as I’d like… 100 hours a year if I’m lucky). My background: primarily single seat ~2300 hours with IP/EP time. I have a commercial/multi/inst/ with a BE-350 type.

Primary reason for getting out is I love flying and quite honestly I would like a job where I only need to focus on that. If I stay in, it is staff jobs from here on out; not to mention dismal work-load and schedule… Although I expect a drop in pay for the first year, I’m fortunate enough to have a retirement pay to supplement.

With a year to plan, I’m trying to get a sanity check on a way forward.

Things to do:

1) Take ATP checkride (I passed the written test July 2014). The two options I’m considering first, A KingAir refresher with the ATP check. Or, second, a 737 type to give more options & flexibility; I’m looking at the December 2015 timeframe. The third option, finding a location for a quick 3 day checkout/checkride in a Twin, I discarded, as I think I personally would benefit from a fuller course. Pros/Cons/Recommendations?

2) Take an Interview Prep Course and build my resume. Feb 2016 timeframe.

3) Ask friends already flying for airlines for recommendation letters (send them drafts). Feb 2016 timeframe.

4) Start applying. This is where I have the most uncertainty in trying to find the sweet spot in regards to timing. Since I won’t start terminal leave until Jun 2016, and retire Oct 2016; what is too early, or too late…? In a perfect world (assuming I get hired) I’d like to start June/July 2016.

5) Finally, how tough is that first year...?

Again, thank you for any advice and thoughts about the above plan you might be able to provide. Plus I’m sure I’m missing a lot of lessons learned, would dearly like to hear those too…
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Old 06-22-2015, 10:42 AM
  #2  
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For sure get your ATP, 737 rating not required anywhere, nice to have if you have the cash. Start sniffing around where you would like to put the tent up, and start from there. Commuting sucks, so that should be a priority. You will get a job, just make it easy for yourself.. It's the rest of your life.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:26 PM
  #3  
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Originally Posted by jumping ship View Post
Yep, another new guy with questions…thanks in advance for all the advice. I’ve scoured most of the threads on this site. Great info.

I’m at the 22-year point and have decided to get out next summer, would start 3+ months of terminal leave Jun 2016, and a retirement date of Oct 2016. I’m in a flying billet (not as much flying as I’d like… 100 hours a year if I’m lucky). My background: primarily single seat ~2300 hours with IP/EP time. I have a commercial/multi/inst/ with a BE-350 type.

Primary reason for getting out is I love flying and quite honestly I would like a job where I only need to focus on that. If I stay in, it is staff jobs from here on out; not to mention dismal work-load and schedule… Although I expect a drop in pay for the first year, I’m fortunate enough to have a retirement pay to supplement.

With a year to plan, I’m trying to get a sanity check on a way forward.

Things to do:

1) Take ATP checkride (I passed the written test July 2014). The two options I’m considering first, A KingAir refresher with the ATP check. Or, second, a 737 type to give more options & flexibility; I’m looking at the December 2015 timeframe. The third option, finding a location for a quick 3 day checkout/checkride in a Twin, I discarded, as I think I personally would benefit from a fuller course. Pros/Cons/Recommendations?

2) Take an Interview Prep Course and build my resume. Feb 2016 timeframe.

3) Ask friends already flying for airlines for recommendation letters (send them drafts). Feb 2016 timeframe.

4) Start applying. This is where I have the most uncertainty in trying to find the sweet spot in regards to timing. Since I won’t start terminal leave until Jun 2016, and retire Oct 2016; what is too early, or too late…? In a perfect world (assuming I get hired) I’d like to start June/July 2016.

5) Finally, how tough is that first year...?

Again, thank you for any advice and thoughts about the above plan you might be able to provide. Plus I’m sure I’m missing a lot of lessons learned, would dearly like to hear those too…
Jumping Ship,

You're on the right track and sounds like your ducks are in a row. As noted above, grab the ATP. Start getting stuff together early like driving records, transcripts, etc.

As far as first year pay, everyone has to deal with it. But with the new contracts at the legacies, it's much more tolerable these days.

Centerline Interview Consulting
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Old 06-22-2015, 01:39 PM
  #4  
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You have the right game plan, but I think you should adjust your timing. I'd say get the interview prep now, start gathering documents (as CL said), knock out the ATP in July, spend August putting your apps in and hitting guys up for LOR's. It's a ton of work trying to get hired, the more you do now, the better off you are.

First year pay has improved tremendously over the last few years. Expect around $70 to $75 per hour, figure $60 to $80k per year depending on how hard you want to work (realize that a large chunk of your military salary is tax free, so it can be a bit of a shock when they deduct your federal taxes). Also, if you live in a standard small AF town and move to a large city (which I recommend since it will be an easier commute or to live in base) you'll find that everything is more expensive than what you're used to. With your retirement it won't be as painful. Just start prepping your family to cut back for the next few years.
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Old 06-22-2015, 03:04 PM
  #5  
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Hey Ship,

A lot depends on your desired carrier. Starting now, keep an eye on these forums for domicile and hiring info, they were huge in steering my choices (e.g. - staying away from Allegiant). You can start a resume now too. Early this fall, join Airline Apps and take your time building an app for a single airline for free without submitting. When you are ready to pull the trigger next spring, you can pay the fee so as to be able to apply to Delta/United/regional backups at will. You'll need recommendations ready around then too. For SWA/AA/FedEx you can join Global Pilot Credentials and use it to populate apps for those carriers (the rules for counting hours at GPC are a bit different and I don't recall if you can create an app for free there).

Normally, most folks who are jet current can skip a 737 type, esp since SWA doesn't require one anymore. However, keep in mind that UAL at least does sim interviews in a 737. If either is your top choice, the type may be worth it for about $3-4k above what you'd pay for an ATP (it may not be required anymore at SWA, but it is still a plus for getting an interview). I got typed because I'd only flown pistons and drones recently and I wanted to use my GI Bill. Without any heavy experience, getting a type was a huge help at my UAL interview and also made my UAL 737 training almost pleasant. For me, it was money extremely well spent but I am not a typical case.

After getting your ATP, I'd hit submit on your apps by next March (it was four months from submission to starting training for me). You can do your interview prep course soon afterwards while you wait for nibbles from the majors. The regionals will bite immediately, I was 3 for 3 at regional interviews by the time I went to my UAL interview (two months after submission). That experience plus my interview prep made me pretty relaxed for the big one.

I just finished IOE, will be based at my top domicile choice soon, and so far no regrets. Best of luck.
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Old 06-22-2015, 06:41 PM
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http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mi...11-update.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hi...e-corners.html
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Old 06-22-2015, 07:14 PM
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I don't know why you wouldn't just put your apps in as soon as you meet the mins (which for you sounds like as soon as you have your ATP in hand). I know guys who have gotten an interview almost 6 months before their DOS. Maybe you are looking forward to a couple months off - but if you are interested in walking out one door an into another, I'd put that app in ASAP. I can't recall if I heard Bill Kennedy say this at WAI or if it was from a UAL CA somewhere else that weekend, but whoever it was said they like to see people who are motivated to work for THEM, vs people who are motivated to work for ANYONE. I think it's reasonable to assume this is the case with most majors, and one way to do that is to show you've been trying for a long time vis-a-vis your application history.

Don't forget about your Flying Class 1 either. I'm guessing you are over 40, so you'll need one every six months. You absolutely will not get a call from a major if you don't have one, or if the date you gave them is expired. Same rule applies to your passport.
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:15 PM
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[QUOTE=Max Relax Roll;1912905]I don't know why you wouldn't just put your apps in as soon as you meet the mins (which for you sounds like as soon as you have your ATP in hand). I know guys who have gotten an interview almost 6 months before their DOS. Maybe you are looking forward to a couple months off - but if you are interested in walking out one door an into another, I'd put that app in ASAP.

If you get the ATP right away and apply, I don't see much of an advantage unless your app is tight from the start and you keep your hours updated regularly. I worked on mine for a long time before I got my ATP or hit "submit", take your time and do it right the first time. You can't build an app quickly while working full time either. Lots of guys get "Fix it" emails from Delta and don't have any idea what they did wrong, I didn't get one. If you do rush to get an ATP, keep in mind that your app looks a bit better with recent hours in a particular aircraft (or you could keep on flying the King Air afterwards I guess). Whatever you decide to do, you are in a good place right now so long as you move out smartly and are prepared to interview soon after submitting your apps. I took a few months off after I retired to hang out with my family and don't regret them one bit, but I guess maybe most guys need the paycheck sooner.
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:48 PM
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Interview to class date can be to 2-4 months. Due to training back up at AA it's currently running 9 months. Four months means you need to interview in June. You can't apply on Tuesday and expect to get selected on Wednesday. It's typically several months lag so that means you have to apply around Jan-March of 2016.

How about face time? OBAP convention this August in DCA. WAI next March in Nashville. I'd make WAI a mandatory event. Every major and regional airline will be there.

Get a 121 job, even with a regional, when you retire. Don't sit around waiting for the majors to find you. Do everything you can to improve your resume/check off additional boxes.
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:27 AM
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[QUOTE=1) Take ATP checkride (I passed the written test July 2014). The two options I’m considering first, A KingAir refresher with the ATP check. Or, second, a 737 type to give more options & flexibility; I’m looking at the December 2015 timeframe. The third option, finding a location for a quick 3 day checkout/checkride in a Twin, I discarded, as I think I personally would benefit from a fuller course. Pros/Cons/Recommendations?
[/QUOTE]

Jump, not sure this question was answered from your post, so here is my two cents.

I went to a small mom and pop'ish shop w/a light twin to get the flying portion done. After the 1st 2 hrs, i realized two things. 1:I might have studied the POH more than the guy teaching the class. 2:When the IP got a phone call airborne from the boss requesting the aircraft for another "client", prior to my time being over; i realized I probably should go to a different outfit. Now, I hear there are ton of places that 'cater' to Mil and where i went wasn't one of them, but it wasn't an environment i was used too.

So, I decided to go to Higher Power and get the ATP/Type rating. I did this for several reasons. Once i decided to switch I thought about the fact I had 0 knowledge of the heavy world (i've been single-seat my whole career) and to be honest I wanted to make sure I could fit in w/a crew. Also, I'd never flown an a/c like the 73 and wanted to be sure I could. Lastly, I knew if i could make it through the training prog that I would probably not have an issue in the future. To me, this whole process was putting money away in the bank. i'm now more confident and knowledge about large jet ops. So, I highly recommend getting the type, if you can afford it (GI Bill) and you want the confidence of operating a large jet prior to interviewing.

As for HPA, i have nothing but good things to say about them. Great training program and unparalleled professionalism. They have customer service down to a science.

PM me w/any specifics. Good luck. (btw-I was lead turning the ATP, i'm still in for another 24mon-so no airline gouge)
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