addykes

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum, but have enjoyed looking around for a while. A wealth of information available here. My ultimate goal is to make it to a major airline. I am 20 years old and will graduate in the upcoming spring with a CFI certificate and bachelor's degree in business aviation. The problem I am contemplating now is if I want to flight instruct or go ANG. I am in Georgia and would love to get on with the jstars in Robins or something like the c-17 unit out of Charleston. I want to know what some of the pros and cons of going through the ANG would be. Can you go straight from a guard unit to a legacy airline? How much time do you build per year? What kind of commitment would I have to make? How difficult is it to fly regionals and ANG at the same time? Any information would be much appreciated.

Packrat

ANG for sure. You'll get the benefit of military flight training and experience. When you get on with the regional they will be required to give you your time off for ANG duty.

Get the biggest ANG jet slot you can. C-17s would be perfect.

Good Luck!

ugleeual

I'd take any ANG flying slot you can get… traditional, active, or technician… then put in for a regional once you get the min hours...

galaxy flyer

If you can get a UPT slot at either C-17 at Jackson or a C-17 at CHS, take it. You should start now with recruiters and the squadrons showing you are medically and academically qualified; interested and available. The C-17s will get you all the flying you want. You have to have a 4-year degree. If not there, head up to Dover and look at the two Reserve Associate units-C-5 or C-17. JSTARS won't get the flying time and you'll be deployed.

Just don't forget, it's a career, not a stepping stone to an airline job.

GF

addykes

Thanks for the replies fellas. This is exactly the kind of advise I am looking for.

PRS Guitars

I was a CFII for a few years before I joined the AF (Active Duty). I loved instructing, but definitely recommend the Guard if you can get a job. Personally, I'd go fighters though, but anything guard will be great. Yes, you'll be able to get to the majors, you will work with lots of airline pilots, so it will help with networking. You'll likely need to go to a regional for a bit to build your hours up, depending on your Guard job.

In the mean time, get your degree knocked out and your CFI. Find a good local CFI job (you can make $30 to $75 an hour as a CFI) to work until you go to UPT.

jimf15e

A few thoughts to keep in mind as you go through this decision process. As a current AGR on leave of absence from an Air Reserve Technician position, as well as having quite a few years on AD I'm in a good position to offer you some points to ponder. My experience is only on the fighter pilot RegAF and Reserve side of things, but I have quite a bit of work experience with ANG issues as well.

- Do you have a full time civilian job? The days of bumming or troughing are harder and harder to come by with funding shortages. Unless you get a full time position expect to build hours at a very slow rate. You'll be on AD status for UPT, MQT, and seasoning, but those days will run out quick. UPT nets you ~200 hours.

- If you do have a full time job is your employer ready for you to be gone for your ANG duty? By USERRA law they have to - but depending on how you make your money it could mean a big pay cut. And just because they have to doesn't mean they'll like it. There could be some (legal) 2d/3d order effects.

- If you get a technician / ART position, realize that is NOT active duty and you can't take mil leave from an airline position to work it. You have to choose one or the other

- If you affiliate with the guard (or the reserves, TBH), be prepared for re-missioning. Talk to the half dozen or so ANG units that lost their manned aircraft and are now flying RPAs. Niagara went from tankers to associating on the 130 to MQ-9s in the span of 5 years. The Guard Bureau is moving full speed ahead on the RPA mission, converting units left and right. The C-130 draw down and KC-46 standup isn't helping things

- Remember, unless you're an AGR or a tech your primary duty is to be a part-timer. Meaning you fly at part time rates. NEVER trust a unit that says they'll keep you on orders. That money can and often does run out and it's out of the units' hands. I've seen it happen and had to do it to many folks - it's the way it is in the ARC because we're exactly that - a reserve service.

Remember - the grass isn't greener in the ARC, it's just a different shade of green. There is no magic bullet, solve all my problems, no downsides option. And lastly, like GF said - you BETTER be joining the armed forces because you want to serve your country, not because you want them to train you to be an airline pilot. Hiring officials and guys in the unit will see right through you if that's not the case and run you off quicker then you can say "Getting to a major"

Good luck.

addykes

Thanks for the advise, and probably not the best title to my post. Although my ultimate goal is to get on with a major airline, I wouldn't be looking at this as just a stepping stone. Military flying is something that I have been very interested in doing for a while. I just want to make sure and look at things from a longterm stand point. Any pros and cons that would be worth mentioning as far as Guard vs. Reserves go?

jimf15e

I only have direct experience with the AF Reserve, but in general you can lump the big pros and cons together into the ARC. Between the two, there are some small differences. The Guard has a lot more units and they're more spread out so your choices are bigger. But as I'm sure you heard they can be tougher to break into. As a guardsman you serve the state vs Big Blue (unless you're deployed/activated), so funding, missions, etc are state dependant. The guard kind of "goes their own way" more than the AFR. The reserves feels a lot more like what it is - just another MAJCOM like ACC, AMC, etc. We have a lot more of an embedded role in Big Blue than the guard. We're smaller though, especially on the fighter/bomber side, and work a lot more through associations vs. iron ownership.

hindsight2020

Your point about bumming/troughing is noted, but it's (as you know) incredibly unit dependent. I wouldn't be asking troughing advice from a fighter guy, flying has always been limited in that community absent an alert commitment. The money and flying generally lies in mobility airframes. They also have more footprint and are less competitive to get in than fighters. Same goes for hours. Fighter guys don't fly much at all, but when it comes around to applying for mainline there is very much a positive bias to people with F-stink on their application, good, bad or indifferent. To such a degree that their lack of multi TPIC is very much dismissed in ways civilians and mobility guys simply cannot get away with. It's good to be a token in the airline application world, good, bad or indifferent. Opportunity costs abound.

Civilian job as an airline aspirant? He'd be doing life wrong then. The play is fairly straightforward: Get thru UPT, qualify in the aircraft, trough until picked up by regional, fly for regional and mil leave with abandon, upgrade to AC in the military, lean on military flying for TPIC, reach mainline minimums. Done. No civilian non-flying job required; it'd be a hindrance more than anything. Your point on USERRA is noted, civilian employers are very Reservist unfriendly in practice when it comes down to non-airline employers and and aircrew reservists with duty requirements that exceed the 48 UTAs that the commercials portray reservists like (i.e. the shoes/nonners).

The other thing the OP needs to think about is how important is it for him to gun for fighters. That's not the easiest part-time job to remain solid in, units tend to be a lot more *restrictive due to the perceived cachet of the job (* local area commuting restrictions, no travel pay funding versus undesirable units, et al) and the bean requirements in days usually exceeds that of your nominal fatty whale airplane unit. Then there's the added potential of washing out of lead-in or B-course training. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just shining a light to the young man to become informed.

As to ART jobs, as an airline aspirant I'd almost prefer it to an AGR, especially considering they are non-approving AGR curtailments right now in the AFRC, leaving people literally with Delta CJOs in hand and no way to exercising it. True effin story. As an AGR, I've delayed my own ATP ride based on the fact they got me locked in until the manning is perceived to be improving and/or easier to replace, so I'm no longer in a hurry. When the furloughs start again/hiring slows down, my job will once again have a line out the door for people wanting it. These things go in waves. It's all musical chairs OP.

Btw, kudos on the AGR mil leave from ART. We are literally the most incestuous professional organization I've had the displeasure of depending on a paycheck for. But the game is chess, it ain't checkers, so I applaud every opportunity a person has to work the system. I've always insisted on the importance to capitalize on the machine's propensity for indecision in order to take care of the family. Plenty of whip-lashing they offer for our work and sacrifice, so it's fair game imo.

All that said, this continues to be the world's coolest part-time job imo.