Guard - Reserve Code of Conduct
09-27-2015, 04:50 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: CEO
Posts: 193
Originally Posted by Albief15
The airlines can go suck it.
When I was a Guardsman, the nation got a full up combat qualified F-15C instructor pilot, who was governed by the same UCMJ that covered active duty officers. I was available to be activated, deployed, placed in combat, or in some cases civil defense roles (F-15 pilots in New Orleans manning checkpoints, etc after Katrina) at a moments notice. I maintained the same currencies required by an F-15 pilot on active duty. Cost to the country? About $35-$50k a year or less on average. Medical benefits? None. Retirement? Not until age 60, and then at a discount to the active duty guys. The nation got (and gets from the rest of you still serving) an experienced, capable, ready to go to war group of pilots for pennies on the dollar compared to active duty pilots. Post 9/11 GI Bill? Not for me. Tricare? Nope... But just as much chance to get activated and go get killed in War or Peacetime as anyone else serving....
Airlines get a lot from government, including airfares for GS and military folks, military charter business, CRAF payments, as well as the government paying for the infrastructure of the industry with ATC, the FAA, NTSB, and safety programs in a host of agencies.
What does the government ask in exchange? "Let my servicemen serve unmolested, and protect their jobs..."
To me, its a bargain for the taxpayers. The total force provides great backup and insurance to the active duty, at a cost that saves our nation a tremendous amount of money.
So a few airline CEOs and others don't like the fact a few pilots out there who are serving their country get a break? I don't care. I don't care about their bonus, the shareholder concerns, or their scheduler's complaints. If we are going to defend this country, and deal with threats from Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, ISIS, and whoever else wants to challenge us, its going to be expensive. We are broke as a nation, and we need to find a way to do what we do with the resources we have. The ANG and Reserves offer us a way to do more with less expense. Make it too hard to do both jobs, and the pilots will make the choice many have already made--to give up on the military side of things. The government knows that if they bend to the airline CEOs, in a few years they won't have a reserve force to manage. The airlines need to adapt. I think the costs could easily be absorbed with a reduction in management's compensation or stock buyback plans.
When I was a Guardsman, the nation got a full up combat qualified F-15C instructor pilot, who was governed by the same UCMJ that covered active duty officers. I was available to be activated, deployed, placed in combat, or in some cases civil defense roles (F-15 pilots in New Orleans manning checkpoints, etc after Katrina) at a moments notice. I maintained the same currencies required by an F-15 pilot on active duty. Cost to the country? About $35-$50k a year or less on average. Medical benefits? None. Retirement? Not until age 60, and then at a discount to the active duty guys. The nation got (and gets from the rest of you still serving) an experienced, capable, ready to go to war group of pilots for pennies on the dollar compared to active duty pilots. Post 9/11 GI Bill? Not for me. Tricare? Nope... But just as much chance to get activated and go get killed in War or Peacetime as anyone else serving....
Airlines get a lot from government, including airfares for GS and military folks, military charter business, CRAF payments, as well as the government paying for the infrastructure of the industry with ATC, the FAA, NTSB, and safety programs in a host of agencies.
What does the government ask in exchange? "Let my servicemen serve unmolested, and protect their jobs..."
To me, its a bargain for the taxpayers. The total force provides great backup and insurance to the active duty, at a cost that saves our nation a tremendous amount of money.
So a few airline CEOs and others don't like the fact a few pilots out there who are serving their country get a break? I don't care. I don't care about their bonus, the shareholder concerns, or their scheduler's complaints. If we are going to defend this country, and deal with threats from Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, ISIS, and whoever else wants to challenge us, its going to be expensive. We are broke as a nation, and we need to find a way to do what we do with the resources we have. The ANG and Reserves offer us a way to do more with less expense. Make it too hard to do both jobs, and the pilots will make the choice many have already made--to give up on the military side of things. The government knows that if they bend to the airline CEOs, in a few years they won't have a reserve force to manage. The airlines need to adapt. I think the costs could easily be absorbed with a reduction in management's compensation or stock buyback plans.
09-27-2015, 05:51 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: B777; Left Seat.
Posts: 253
Nicely said, Albie.
The point is, we give NOTHING.
USERRA is the law. Follow it, or face the consequences.
CAPA is crafting a response for DoD to use.
And, if some shill, wearing stars, writes a suggested policy for you to follow (on the back-door promise of a corporate job after retirement), don't follow his optional suggestions.
99% of Guard & Reserve guys do their level best to accommodate their companies with respect to their service. If a few use the system to their distinct advantage, I applaud them. What would management do if the roles were reversed?
The point is, we give NOTHING.
USERRA is the law. Follow it, or face the consequences.
CAPA is crafting a response for DoD to use.
And, if some shill, wearing stars, writes a suggested policy for you to follow (on the back-door promise of a corporate job after retirement), don't follow his optional suggestions.
99% of Guard & Reserve guys do their level best to accommodate their companies with respect to their service. If a few use the system to their distinct advantage, I applaud them. What would management do if the roles were reversed?
09-28-2015, 05:09 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: BE350 PIC
Posts: 624
Hindsight's gif just made me sneeze iced tea into my sinuses.
Reserves are a bargain. I think I might clear $15k a year from the reserves (we are currently just getting 48 drills, and 14 days AT and not a drill more here) but the Navy has a qualified E-2 pilot, who can also fly helicopters, and is current in the C-12 (day job).
I wish we (Navy Reserves) would stop slashing units/billets within units. VAW-77 (the only E-2C reserve unit in the country) shut down just as I was leaving active duty.
The non flying unit I'm in now (TACRON) just slashed about 1/3 of the billets while "Big Reserves" scream we are undermanned. I've tried to get ATP/RMPs for my underemployed guys, and there are none to be had.
Reserves are a bargain. I think I might clear $15k a year from the reserves (we are currently just getting 48 drills, and 14 days AT and not a drill more here) but the Navy has a qualified E-2 pilot, who can also fly helicopters, and is current in the C-12 (day job).
I wish we (Navy Reserves) would stop slashing units/billets within units. VAW-77 (the only E-2C reserve unit in the country) shut down just as I was leaving active duty.
The non flying unit I'm in now (TACRON) just slashed about 1/3 of the billets while "Big Reserves" scream we are undermanned. I've tried to get ATP/RMPs for my underemployed guys, and there are none to be had.
09-28-2015, 09:00 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757/767 Capt
Posts: 642
Great post Albie! In many cases they get a fully qualified and, most important, an EXPERIENCED pilot for less than $35,000/year. I was part of a Reserve Associate Wing and the Active Duty kids were always coming across the hall for advice, and Intel about what the best way to accomplish the mission was. The Guard and Reserves are a fantastic asset to this nation and their cost is a pittance!
09-28-2015, 10:15 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: Babysitter
Posts: 975
Originally Posted by Albief15
The airlines can go suck it.
When I was a Guardsman, the nation got a full up combat qualified F-15C instructor pilot, who was governed by the same UCMJ that covered active duty officers. I was available to be activated, deployed, placed in combat, or in some cases civil defense roles (F-15 pilots in New Orleans manning checkpoints, etc after Katrina) at a moments notice. I maintained the same currencies required by an F-15 pilot on active duty. Cost to the country? About $35-$50k a year or less on average. Medical benefits? None. Retirement? Not until age 60, and then at a discount to the active duty guys. The nation got (and gets from the rest of you still serving) an experienced, capable, ready to go to war group of pilots for pennies on the dollar compared to active duty pilots. Post 9/11 GI Bill? Not for me. Tricare? Nope... But just as much chance to get activated and go get killed in War or Peacetime as anyone else serving....
Airlines get a lot from government, including airfares for GS and military folks, military charter business, CRAF payments, as well as the government paying for the infrastructure of the industry with ATC, the FAA, NTSB, and safety programs in a host of agencies.
What does the government ask in exchange? "Let my servicemen serve unmolested, and protect their jobs..."
To me, its a bargain for the taxpayers. The total force provides great backup and insurance to the active duty, at a cost that saves our nation a tremendous amount of money.
So a few airline CEOs and others don't like the fact a few pilots out there who are serving their country get a break? I don't care. I don't care about their bonus, the shareholder concerns, or their scheduler's complaints. If we are going to defend this country, and deal with threats from Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, ISIS, and whoever else wants to challenge us, its going to be expensive. We are broke as a nation, and we need to find a way to do what we do with the resources we have. The ANG and Reserves offer us a way to do more with less expense. Make it too hard to do both jobs, and the pilots will make the choice many have already made--to give up on the military side of things. The government knows that if they bend to the airline CEOs, in a few years they won't have a reserve force to manage. The airlines need to adapt. I think the costs could easily be absorbed with a reduction in management's compensation or stock buyback plans.
When I was a Guardsman, the nation got a full up combat qualified F-15C instructor pilot, who was governed by the same UCMJ that covered active duty officers. I was available to be activated, deployed, placed in combat, or in some cases civil defense roles (F-15 pilots in New Orleans manning checkpoints, etc after Katrina) at a moments notice. I maintained the same currencies required by an F-15 pilot on active duty. Cost to the country? About $35-$50k a year or less on average. Medical benefits? None. Retirement? Not until age 60, and then at a discount to the active duty guys. The nation got (and gets from the rest of you still serving) an experienced, capable, ready to go to war group of pilots for pennies on the dollar compared to active duty pilots. Post 9/11 GI Bill? Not for me. Tricare? Nope... But just as much chance to get activated and go get killed in War or Peacetime as anyone else serving....
Airlines get a lot from government, including airfares for GS and military folks, military charter business, CRAF payments, as well as the government paying for the infrastructure of the industry with ATC, the FAA, NTSB, and safety programs in a host of agencies.
What does the government ask in exchange? "Let my servicemen serve unmolested, and protect their jobs..."
To me, its a bargain for the taxpayers. The total force provides great backup and insurance to the active duty, at a cost that saves our nation a tremendous amount of money.
So a few airline CEOs and others don't like the fact a few pilots out there who are serving their country get a break? I don't care. I don't care about their bonus, the shareholder concerns, or their scheduler's complaints. If we are going to defend this country, and deal with threats from Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, ISIS, and whoever else wants to challenge us, its going to be expensive. We are broke as a nation, and we need to find a way to do what we do with the resources we have. The ANG and Reserves offer us a way to do more with less expense. Make it too hard to do both jobs, and the pilots will make the choice many have already made--to give up on the military side of things. The government knows that if they bend to the airline CEOs, in a few years they won't have a reserve force to manage. The airlines need to adapt. I think the costs could easily be absorbed with a reduction in management's compensation or stock buyback plans.
09-28-2015, 04:20 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: 787 FO
Posts: 792
It's a wonderful benefit worth just about anything to get. I worked hard in my AF career to qualify for it. An example of its value, every single airline pilot in my unit is or will soon be on mil leave. Yes I avoided a lot of 1st year pay which was the plan. I'm on my second airline, I had to start over again. Luckily I was blessed to still have the opportunity to fly in the military. Many of us on mil leave are just trying to get to a AD retirement. Most of us will return, some will not. They just can't be away from mama for than a night or two.
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