C-130 Down in Afghanistan
04-19-2016, 04:50 PM
#21
Working weekends
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by Packrat
Sorry, guys, but I have a very low tolerance for stupidity/complacency. Unfortunately, they took a bunch of innocent guys with them.
It was done in the furtherance of getting the mission done.
Your words are offensive
04-19-2016, 07:27 PM
#23
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
So, it is OK with you "professionals" to use non-standard "procedures" in order to expedite the mission. Then to forego a control check, takeoff, stall and destroy a National Asset while killing 10 passengers.
Sorry, kids, but I just call a spade a spade. Sorry if you don't like it.
Follow your procedures, do your checklist properly and get everyone home to fly/fight another day.
Sorry, kids, but I just call a spade a spade. Sorry if you don't like it.
Follow your procedures, do your checklist properly and get everyone home to fly/fight another day.
04-19-2016, 09:28 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Left & Right
Posts: 187
It's a good thing 'ol Packrat is perfect and never makes mistakes. :roll eyes:
The typical profile in Afghanistan consists of several legs between bases with engines running on/offloads. Whether you think it's smart or not, the fact is that flight control checks in the C-130 community were completed before the initial takeoff and de-emphasized for subsequent legs. The thinking was, "I checked them already. I haven't left the seat, what could possibly have happened?"
In hindsight, we all know that was a really dumb way to operate, but until this accident, it was a cultural norm. We've fixed that now. Sad that it took a tragic accident for us to figure it out, but here we are.
The typical profile in Afghanistan consists of several legs between bases with engines running on/offloads. Whether you think it's smart or not, the fact is that flight control checks in the C-130 community were completed before the initial takeoff and de-emphasized for subsequent legs. The thinking was, "I checked them already. I haven't left the seat, what could possibly have happened?"
In hindsight, we all know that was a really dumb way to operate, but until this accident, it was a cultural norm. We've fixed that now. Sad that it took a tragic accident for us to figure it out, but here we are.
The normalization of deviance is defined as: “The gradual process through which unacceptable practice or standards become acceptable. As the deviant behavior is repeated without catastrophic results, it becomes the social norm for the organization.”
04-20-2016, 03:15 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
I think piddle packs have taken down one or two f-16s with control interference. A dropped cup, can, or mug can cause serious issues in any plane...GA to airline.
RIP brothers...and be careful out there. FOD kills...not just when it goes into engines.
RIP brothers...and be careful out there. FOD kills...not just when it goes into engines.
04-20-2016, 04:46 AM
#27
Abused Spouse of PBS
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 439
Originally Posted by Packrat
So, it is OK with you "professionals" to use non-standard "procedures" in order to expedite the mission. Then to forego a control check, takeoff, stall and destroy a National Asset while killing 10 passengers.
Sorry, kids, but I just call a spade a spade. Sorry if you don't like it.
Follow your procedures, do your checklist properly and get everyone home to fly/fight another day.
Sorry, kids, but I just call a spade a spade. Sorry if you don't like it.
Follow your procedures, do your checklist properly and get everyone home to fly/fight another day.
The story of the maintainer at Charleston who hot folded up in the slats for departing a checklist is another case in point.
Think your idea is better, then submit an 847.
C17D
04-20-2016, 05:23 AM
#28
Get me outta here...
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Boeing right seat
Posts: 1,541
Originally Posted by Packrat
Sorry, guys, but I have a very low tolerance for stupidity/complacency.
However, most have a maturity, a command of the English language, and a professional level of empathy that would preclude posting in the tone and manner that you do.
04-20-2016, 06:35 AM
#29
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Originally Posted by C-17 Driver
Although brash, Packrat has a valid point. On those long days and deployments, it's easy for complacency and non-standard techniques to sneak in. Stay with the checklist unless you have a very valid emergency authority type reason to do otherwise.
The story of the maintainer at Charleston who hot folded up in the slats for departing a checklist is another case in point.
Think your idea is better, then submit an 847.
C17D
The story of the maintainer at Charleston who hot folded up in the slats for departing a checklist is another case in point.
Think your idea is better, then submit an 847.
C17D
Originally Posted by HuggyU2
However, most have a maturity, a command of the English language, and a professional level of empathy that would preclude posting in the tone and manner that you do.
If you don't, well then you're just a Packrat.
04-20-2016, 06:41 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
Posts: 1,537
There is always a place for tact, empathy, and decorum, Rat, especially when speaking of damn fine people who met with tragedy. You have no excuse and could have easily chosen a much softer tone demonstrating respect. You didn't and chose to be snide, disrespectful, and "brash". Hope your karma here doesn't come back to bite you. If it does, we'll try not to deny you what you have denied others.
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