MikeF16

I like getting paid extra to work extra. Got an email from the chief pilot? DELETE, not required to read it. Phone rings? Voicemail, not required to pick it up. Works for me.

Being away from home is more tiring than you'd expect. You'd be surprised at how quickly you forget 6 month deployments and start bltching about 4 day trips. Probably more self-induced stress reading these forums than actually doing the job .

TSRAGR

+1 Mike. I think I'm only trying to get into this industry so I can delete emails...

crewdawg

I guess it depends upon what kind of "9-5" jobs are out there. My squadron has a few guys who are business professionals (all have a SAHS) that spend more time on airliners/in hotels than most of us airline guys. They work 5 days/week (plus drill weekend) and spend most Sunday afternoons prepping for the week. The days they do come into the Guard, they are frequently checking their e-mail throughout the day to "put out fires." They are constantly stressing about how much work they're going to have stacked up after a day at the Guard. They seem to work at the other job after working at the Guard for the day. Who has more time to spend with their kids? I'm not sure (full disclosure...not married, no kids), but one has recently submitted his airline app. They're simply amazed at our ability to sit reserve at home, manipulate our schedule and not having to deal with work when we're not at work.

Slim11

Retired OHARNG and PSA captain in DAY.

All the comments are valid. At 45, you should have little to no problem getting picked up by a major. A 20 year (+/-) combined with a 50% retirement should put you in a great position. If I was 15 years younger, I'd go after a major position.

DL in DTW, is viable...flying or driving. Believe it or not, United with the IAD base is a viable option if you're not opposed to commuting. I'd do a IAD commute before a ORD commute.

Good luck!

Albief15

I jump into one of these threads about every 2-3 years when I see one. I thought I’d roll in here again with some thoughts from the perspective of a guy who left active duty for the airlines and has helped about 5000 change careers.

Breaking the decision into digestible chunks, the decision to move into the airline world revolves around many factors. Some of those include money, time away from home, job identity, passion for flying, and job security.

Let’s talk money first. For most military pilots, the airlines will offer a drop in pay and benefits for a few initial years. While there are new and improved contracts at many carriers, leaving active duty will initially likely be a pay cut. The question is will the initial cut pay off in the long run?

Depending on where you get hired, most pay rates on narrow body aircraft at the legacies and UPS/FDX is over 100 dollars an hour. That means realistically making 110-150k your second or third year, although you will lose some of the tax and insurance savings you had on active duty. You may have a higher salary but less take home after your higher taxes and insurance premiums. At some point, however, when your pay rate ekes up north of $150 an hour making about $200,000 a year is a realistic expectation. You cannot base the decision strictly on dollars, but at some point you can expect to make more at the airlines than you will as an O-4 or O-5 on active duty. This is predicated, of course, on a healthy industry that does not furlough you. I went north of $300,000 my 7th year at FedEx, which was a lucky fluke. However, had I not made the leap that never would have occurred. I was lucky—but I also knew to win you have to be in the game. Many officers seem reluctant to give up 125k a year or so and take a 50k pay cut, when the payoff can be 2-3 times there current income in less than 10 years. If they stay on as contractors, ARTs, etc., more than likely they will make the 125-150k a year plus a COLA raise until they retire, or perhaps top out at 200k if they end up being the top manager. There are no guarantees of course, but there is money to be made in the airline business, and it is almost impossible for a traditional job to match the kind of time off or flexibility that come with the airline lifestyle.

How do you survive an initial pay cut? There are several options:

Work an extra military job. If you are in the AFRES/ANG, your extra income will likely mitigate some if not all of your reduced salary. Yes—you will be working two jobs, and some days that is just hard work. At the same time, I found working on my schedule made the hard work much more palatable. Additionally, there is a psychological change when you go from working a salary to getting paid by the day. When someone says “hey.... if you will come in and work as SOF that day I’ll pay you a UTA or FTP... the job becomes an opportunity instead of a burden. It also helps you make the psychological shift from military pilot to airline puke (more on that later).

Put the wife back to work. If you have a spouse that likes to work, or perhaps has put her career on hold to help with children, this may be a time to consider rejoining the work force, if only for a couple of years. In my house, it has always had the additional benefit of giving my wife her own goals and issues to worry about, instead of worrying about what I am doing or when I am home next. Quite frankly, my wife’s career gave her not only the income but also a lot of pride and satisfaction in having her own life that didn’t have to revolve around mine.

Save. You will have windows to get out of the military...typically at the end of the initial service commitment, the end of a bonus commitment, or retirement. You need to plan ahead for each of these milestones and have your finances set to make the leap should you decide to bail. This occurs years, not months, before these dates. (See Timing your Exit)

Downsize. Sell the extra car. Move into a smaller house for a couple years. Sell the boat. It is temporary. Do not make any major financial commitments a year or two before your window to leave. Don’t chain yourself down.

Retired? Moonlight. Keep your DOD clearances and do some part time consulting or contract work. You are more valuable as a part timer than you realized, and since companies won’t have to pay your insurance or overhead costs you can often get a healthy per hour rate for your expertise.

If you can make the leap, at some point with an ANG/Reserve gig or retirement check coming in, you should be north of 200k before long and 250 or 300k is not unrealistic. I have heard people say “...its not the money...” or “money doesn’t matter...” I’ll offer a few thoughts.

First—if you don’t need all the money, many times you can drop/trade/give away some of the flying to other pilots. This is company dependent, but if time off is more important to you making a load of money in a day lets you work less days to make the money you need. Conversely, as someone else pointed out, if you want that new boat or some cash to pay for Christmas goodies, go work a couple extra days. Military guys are used to being on salary, but when you understand that your paycheck is actually influenced directly by how much you work you will be intoxicated to realize you have some control over your financial future. Most guys end up working more than they originally planned once they discover this, but I’ve also known some who dump week after week of flying to go ski, hunt, or enjoy their summers off. Personally, I have done both and appreciate the flexibility to scale my work to meet my life’s requirements.

Money won’t make you happy, but it can eliminate some stress. A wise friend of mine listened to me complain a bit about some issues. A few years earlier, his only son had died as a freshman at the USNA. He told me that when you have problems you can solve with money, you don’t have problems; you have expenses. It was wise counsel. A leaky roof or a broken car can be devastating to a family on a budget. For me, it’s a pain in the ass I solve with a phone call. Many things that used to potentially cause stress now are just.... well...money I have to spend. They are not “problems”. I am blessed with a wonderful wife (more on that later) and our relationship is very strong. It was strong when we were newlyweds sharing a 2Lt salary, but I will admit that part of the reason we don’t have as much stress is we don’t have to sweat the small money stuff. While I am not exceptionally frugal, our lifestyle has always been a couple notches below our income, so when someone needs something or there is a problem, we can usually throw a little money at it. I would like to think we would be just as close if we had to worry over every dime going out, but I am confident that our financial situation has made our marriage easier in the long run.

Share the money. Letting the family experience the good side of your work has its own rewards. When your wife gets to go on that cruise, or get that new car, or get that piece of jewelry she’s always wanted, your job will no longer be “the enemy” but rather a blessing. You don’t have to be silly or extravagant, but when the money does start to show up don’t put it all into an investment account or that boat or car that only you want—make sure your support team understands the value to them as well.

Next—what about the time away from home? This is the most important self-evaluation you need to do. If your goal in life is to spend as many nights in your own bedroom as possible, being an airline pilot is probably never going to be the best job for you. There are some gigs that will allow it—perhaps you fly out and backs at your base or you work for a company like FedEx and hub-turn each night from your hometown. We have pilots who do that. My own take is part of the joy of this job is seeing the world. Sometimes—it’s on the company dime. Other times, it’s during my time off. During the last two weeks, I’ve gone from Hiking in Hong Kong with my wife, to being at the breakfast table with my mom and two oldest daughters in Orlando, to watching my wife get a lifetime achievement award in our old home town, to driving across the country skiing in Colorado on the way, and then returning to my daughter’s for Thanksgiving. I stopped on the way back to Hong Kong in Anchorage and got a plate of reindeer sausage at Gweenies, then back to Hong Kong in the span of 13 days . I love the fact the because of airplanes, the world is my playground. I can ski in Japan or the Rockies, visit friends around the globe, and the view from the office is never dull. Being home every night has never been my goal—jamming as much fun into my limited days on this earth has been my goal. I like exploring new places, and not having to make a choice between “Hawaii or snow-skiing?” but instead being able to answer “all the above please...”

What about your wife? I had an old pilot tell me once you were going to have sex a certain number of times a month with your wife, regardless of how many days you were home. Why not cut down the number of days you are home and make it more like a honeymoon? While a bit humorous, the fact is a certain amount of time away from each other probably helps our marriage. But as I mentioned, I adore my wife, and I’m crazy about my kids—so how do I handle being away?
First—when I am home I am not dealing with office stress or worried about being deployed, making the boss happy, or 1000 other typical job stresses. I am usually—well—all theirs if they want me. Second, as your kids get a little older they are going to be busy at times with their own friends, sports, and activities. Even if I am home—many times its a “hi dad!” as they were going in or out the door with their peers to do their own thing. Believe it or not, my teenage girls didn’t always want daddy involved in all of their activities. As mentioned, my wife had her own career and a host of non-profit board memberships, so she stayed busy as well. Now, everyone in the house understood if it was important I be there, all they had to do was ask—and I would be. I missed more stuff when I was on active duty than I as an airline pilot. Additionally, I didn’t have to be there for EVERYTHING. What was the perk for the family? Well...nobody went wanting for anything with the solid income we had, and cheerleading uniforms, school trips, cars when they were teenagers, etc. were available without a lot of stress on the family. More importantly, and this is what I stress to many of my friends—I included my family in my career as much as possible. We discussed my monthly bids—what days was I really needed for the “good stuff”? I also looked for every opportunity to take my family as much as possible. While we don’t have non-rev for family at FedEx, we do have some great trips with long layovers in cool places. I would get tickets—sometimes just for one of them, or sometimes the whole brood—to join me when they could. So—I’ve had my girls with me in SFO, Anchorage, Salt Lake, Paris, Manchester NH, NYC, and a host of other places joining me when they could. Their world got a lot bigger, and I took it as a source of pride all my girls could get around on the Paris metro and knew the city pretty well after joining me over there about every summer for a long visit. In short—it wasn’t just MY career; it was my family’s career. When you are snuggled up with your wife on a San Francisco layover after hiking the Golden Gate Bridge, it doesn’t seem like work anymore. When your kids are riding rental bikes exploring Paris with you, it’s hard to believe you are getting paid for the trip. Not every family is that mobile, and many don’t want to be. For us, however, it was not “family or work” but rather “family and work” at least once a quarter. Instead of getting disappointed I was gone, the girls were asking “were can we go with you next?” or “do you have any good ski layovers coming up?” That experience—making my job into a family adventure—is what led to us moving to Hong Kong this year. I worked hard the first month on the line to get consolidated, and quite frankly was gone more than I would have liked that 30 days. Since then.... well.... everyone else is busy consolidating and I have been left at home while on reserve. Its gotten so bad I am looking to bump a guy off a trip to get some currency, and perhaps take my wife and youngest to Japan for the first time. In short—time away is a factor. How you deal with it, however, is up to you. Having money helps...a missed or full non-rev flight is not a big deal if you can afford a hotel for the family that night and a set of tickets in a pinch.

For some guys, stepping back from their military titles or roles become a “bus driver” is perceived as somehow a step down. I never had this—I knew I wanted to be an airline pilot from the time I was a small child. Some guys, however, feel like they will still be more valued or respected if they take that job as a DOD contractor, simulator instructor, or other non-airline gig. At some point, however, we all become “has-beens”. Even if you hang on, in 24 months there will be less than a dozen folks left in an active duty squadron that knew you as the pilot/leader/tactician you once were. To everyone else, you are now “the retired guy”. You might fly circles around that snarky young captain, but you will never get a chance to prove it, because you don’t work there anymore. The fact is if you retire from the military, the transition to civilian life is abrupt. One day everyone is calling you “sir” and kissing your ass, and the next day you are pushing a grocery cart in your civvies in the commissary. If you want to work on the base and rehash stories of how you used to be the man, knock yourself out, but I think you will find you quickly become yesterday’s news. It is natural to go through a bit of a period of grief and depression. Guys who continue to serve in the ANG/AFRES get to sort of wean themselves, and the transition isn’t as abrupt...but there are elements of it that are still present.

The counter to these is time and new interests. I started my business back in 2002, and quite frankly have been too damn busy since to do much looking back pining over my career. Many of the folks I’ve seen leave the military that are happiest have new passions, be it business, church, hobbies, social work, or physical fitness. You may not know what makes you tick—yet—because you haven’t had the time to find out. Allow yourself the luxury of grieving a bit.... I cried like an 8-year old girl on my last F-15 flight. The emotion of leaving such a big part of my life was overwhelming, even though I knew rationally it was time. But you know—once I walked away, I never wanted to return. A little time away will make your perspective different when you look back. What most of my friends have found, however, is a whole new world of interesting challenges and things to do.

So what about the flying? I got to do some cool things in the Air Force, and while there are tons of guys who did even cooler stuff shooting rockets and dropping BDUs on the range in an OV-10, shooting an Aim-7 off an F-15, and leading guys over Iraq as a Mission commander were experiences that are just impossible to match anywhere else. So—do I quit flying, since I cannot do those things anymore? I find airline flying—even the routine flights—still an interesting and challenging pastime. I also like the fact it doesn’t take 100% of my effort like flying the F-15 in a BFM engagement once did. I enjoy the interaction with the crews, learning about their hobbies, interests, and passions. I love looking out the window and the incredible places we get to fly over and visit. I could not list all that I have learned about places, food, and history from the fellow pilots I’ve met along the way. Flying is still a blast. It is a different kind of fun, but it is fun just the same. I don’t really have a boss, and I work more or less as independent contractors—bidding for trips, trading and adjusting my schedule to best suit my family and me. I don’t always get exactly what I want, but the amount of control and flexibility you have is hard to describe to someone who has only served in the military. I will also offer this tidbit: If you think you might want to be an airline pilot, the go do it. You can always quit if it turns out its not for you, and return to a non-flying career. Conversely, if you leave the cockpit for several years, decide you miss it and want to come back; it’s a much harder (albeit not impossible: see Regional Airline Hiring) road to travel.

Finally—what about security? How much security do you need? How much more than your military retirement checks do you need to earn to allow you to take a chance? What are your risk/reward tradeoffs? Another 9/11 could certainly happen, and it would affect our industry. However, what if it doesn’t happen? The legacies are hiring 1000 year. FedEx and UPS are hiring. What if you did lose your airline job? Do you think there is ANYTHING you could possible go do to help make a living? I expect you have plenty of options if commercial aviation doesn’t work out.

In the early 2000s, I left the Air Force at the 14-year point to pursue my airline career. It was not standard career timing, leaving only 6 years before earning an active duty retirement. I mitigated the risk by having a working wife, flying in the ANG, and starting a business. My story has gone well. Yours may be different. I will offer this, however. I had friends who stayed in to 20 to do the “safe” route. They got out in 2007-8, right as the economy fell off a cliff and the airlines quit hiring for several years. One is now at FedEx, but he went back on active duty for several years. SWA hired him, put him in a pool, but when he could not leave active duty they rescinded his offer. (Another great chance here to show the real “SWA spirit”). Other guys went AGR at UPT bases. Remember a few years back when there was a move to convert those AGR slots to ART positions? Some friends decided to “play it safe” and avoid the airlines and took some “secure” contract sim instructor positions. When President Obama got in office those were converted to GS positions, with about a 30% pay cut. My point is there is no job that is secure. Security comes from having a transferable set of work skills, maintaining a good network of contacts, and always being ready to adapt or flex into a new role. At a certain point, you may expect that you are bulletproof from furlough at an airline, but we are never bulletproof from a medical issue that could ground us tomorrow. So—don’t get lazy, and always keep your brain working and stay up with what is going on in your industry and expand your skill set. I’ve always believed that Murphy’s Law was in play, and as long as I had other options outside my day job I’d likely never need them. So far, that’s been accurate...so I don’t plan on putting all my trust in any one employer anytime going forward.

Giving up a good job to start a new career is always nerve wracking. I do not mean to come off as having the right answers, as each of us has a very unique set of personal and family variables. What I will say is I have seen some warriors that knew how to take a smart, educated risk in combat or in their flying, but are absolutely terrified to take a similar educated risk in their professional lives. The civilian world doesn’t require a 7, 10, or 20 year commitment when you take a job, and if you don’t like it you can always do something else. Only you know if the risk is worth taking. If you are looking for someone to say “hey—it was worth the risk to me...”, count me in that column. I’ve got a job I am proud of, enough money to work though most day to day issues and have some left over for some fun, and a family that I adore that seems to love and appreciate me back too. It can be done. But it is absolutely not for everybody. Good luck whatever path you choose....

T6 Pilot

Thanks for the words here and sharing on the TPN.

Gilligan13

Why would his pay get cut? Would you still be flying in the Guard?

kme9418

It's a common way of looking at it. Once you've done 20 years of active duty and retire, you get 50% of your base pay in retirement. Therefore, staying active duty (AGR) means that you are only working for the other half of base pay (plus allowances and incentive pay)

Gilligan13

Why not do 30 if you're happy and just retire. Kids will be out of the house.