ATP Centerline Thrust Hours?
#11
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
You should write the FAA for a letter of interpretation about this, cite his name in the inquiry, and mail a copy to him when it comes back. If he is that wrong on this issue, he shouldn't be a DPE and the Feds should remove him from said position.
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: JAFO- First Observer
Posts: 997
See FAA Order 8900.1, Volume 5. I don't have the exact reference in front of me, but somewhere in ther it discusses this issue. Basically it lists several military aircraft, multiengine but without a published Vmc speed. The T-38, F-14, and several others are listed. Basically the guidance implies that although these military aircraft have more than one engine, they are considered "centerline thrust" for certification purposes...
#13
So, after much discussion it looks like the DPE was out to lunch on this - a case of overly cautious CYA-ness. Like I had concluded going into the checkride, ME time is ME time, totally irrelevant if it's CL thrust or not (for logging reasons) once the restriction is removed.
Luckily, I'm not a DPE, I'm the guy that tells the DPE what to do, and if after doing the above research I mentioned, I found that there was nothing preventing the issuance, I'd tell them to go ahead and do it.
Sounds like this guy has some issues admitting he is wrong and handling their applicants in a professional manner.
If you are arranging a checkride and doing something that isn't the "usual" way they see applicants, you might want to ask them first about your specific situation, rather than showing up on the day and presenting something to them that they don't usually encounter.
#14
See FAA Order 8900.1, Volume 5. I don't have the exact reference in front of me, but somewhere in ther it discusses this issue. Basically it lists several military aircraft, multiengine but without a published Vmc speed. The T-38, F-14, and several others are listed. Basically the guidance implies that although these military aircraft have more than one engine, they are considered "centerline thrust" for certification purposes...
Appropriately rated military pilots can (if they take the mil-comp test) get a commercial certificate and type ratings for the aircraft they fly, if the aircraft has a civilian equivalent type. This is certification.
#15
This part says it all:
The centerline thrust limitation is for the ISSUANCE of a pilot certificate (mil-comp) and for taking the practical test in an aircraft with no published Vmc, as I was mentioning above.
Taking a practical test for an ATP in a normal multi-engine aircraft is a totally different matter.
5-88 PRACTICAL TESTS IN MILITARY AIRCRAFT. Inspectors are occasionally required to administer practical tests in military aircraft. The aircraft provided by the applicant must be equipped to perform all maneuvers required on the test.
5-89 REMOVAL OF LIMITED TO CENTER THRUST LIMITATION FROM THE AMEL RATING. The “Limited to Center Thrust” limitation for the AMEL rating is issued to applicants who complete the practical test for the AMEL rating in an aircraft that does not have a manufacturer’s published VMC
Taking a practical test for an ATP in a normal multi-engine aircraft is a totally different matter.
#17
If you are trying to find a better DPE, check out this thread: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mi...practical.html
Lots of information on mil friendly examiners and schools.
Lots of information on mil friendly examiners and schools.
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 233
See FAA Order 8900.1, Volume 5. I don't have the exact reference in front of me, but somewhere in ther it discusses this issue. Basically it lists several military aircraft, multiengine but without a published Vmc speed. The T-38, F-14, and several others are listed. Basically the guidance implies that although these military aircraft have more than one engine, they are considered "centerline thrust" for certification purposes...
#20
The Hornet is at least one example.
The C/Ds with EPEs have the language in the NATOPS for Vmc and I'd bet the E/Fs are the same - but I've not read their NATOPS.
This is where that 'military friendly' FSDO (or DPEs) comes into play.
The one nearest NAS Lemoore knew all about the updates and such but others might not know.
The C/Ds with EPEs have the language in the NATOPS for Vmc and I'd bet the E/Fs are the same - but I've not read their NATOPS.
This is where that 'military friendly' FSDO (or DPEs) comes into play.
The one nearest NAS Lemoore knew all about the updates and such but others might not know.
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