paulpedals

Greetings! Long time listener, first time caller.

I'm looking for advice, personal experiences, and general impressions on careers in AGR vs pursuing my R-ATP and subsequent airline career. I am leaning towards ATP, however that may be unfairly biased due to the grass is greener mentality.

If you have some input it would be appreciated. I'm just trying to expand my view a little. That's the gist of it for those with short attention spans. I'll expand on the details below for reference though.

My current situation:
+/- 250 RW hours, commercial, instrument
0 documented FW hours (enough undocumented to survive having to fly out of a post apocalyptic/zombie movie)

I'm in a reserve unit, flying 1 day a week average. My civilian employment is a 9-5, M-F gig non-aviation or military related. Its a good job, but my dreams lie elsewhere.

Since my military time has been in the reserves I am not calculating using the GI bill to pay for flight training. Long story short, unless I deploy a few times, my GI bill is not so valuable.

Things I like about going AGR:
-no financial investment per se
-great retirement, lending well to secondary careers
-great initial pay

Things I dont like:
-still a M-F job + 1 weekend a month and normally at least 1 2 week training to attend somewhere in the sticks
-more Army stress and BS than I currently encounter
-I would have 17 years of it until getting that sweet retirement nectar

Things I like about heading the airline route:
-Time off
-Less stress, or so I've heard (my personality suites "tell me what to do and leave me alone while I do it well" type work)
-Pay. Well, eventually
-Now is the time to get into it from what I have heard

And don't like:
-Initial investment for flight training
-Would involve taking on 1 or more part time jobs, in exchange for my FT position right now in order to train with the proper intensity.
-Initial pay (preaching to the choir, I know)

I have done my research and am familiar with what is involved in securing an AGR position, and with getting my R-ATP. Just looking for more input. Bottom line what's better in the long run?

Other info, I'm 31 yrs old. Married, with a 4 yr old, 2 yr old, and one more due in June, all girls. I like spending time with them, and currently don't get enough of that.

Sliceback

No one was born on second base. It typically takes 5-8 years from the word "go!" to when you can get a major airline job. That's working at it full time and getting 1500 hrs two years after you start. Every year longer that it takes to get to 1500 hrs, and working full time as a pilot after that, increases the length of time before you're competitive to get on with a major.

Short term(years..) of struggle for long term success. The payoff equation is different for everyone. The journey will be tougher than your current gig. Married, especially with kids, makes it tougher. A single guy can, and should, take any job, anywhere, for any pay, that improves his resume. That is not an option if you're married or have kids.

Adlerdriver

Awesome description!! - made me LOL.
So just to clarify, you've got the FAA exception letter for the twin engine takeoff from the crumbling runway, while being followed by the ever enlarging earthquake chasm spewing lava and then flying under toppling high rise buildings..........good... ya know, every little thing helps.

On a serious note - have you considered a possible transition to FW ANG? With all the airlines scooping up active duty and G/R guys, maybe there's a need for bodies and that's a good way to make the transition. My F-15 ANG unit had a former Army Guard RW pilot we put through UPT who turned into a fantastic stick. I know you're close on the age limit, but perhaps waivers or the fact you're already serving gives some wiggle room.

Time line from ANG UPT slot to traditional guardsman with an airline job might be a bit longer than going the pure civilian route, but maybe not by much. Plus if the music stops during this latest hiring craze and you're not quite at the point where you can get hired at a major, you're sitting pretty as maybe an ART or even an AGR which you may find is where you prefer to stay.

Don't know if that's really a viable plan for certain, just thought I'd throw it out.

paulpedals

Adlerdriver, you can never be TOO prepared for that sort of thing.

I don't meet the education requirements to commission. I do know there are Army fixed wing units in the Guard/Reserve, and I've heard they are tough to get into (who you know). Not ruling it out, but I'm not going to plan on that happening.

Sliceback, I qualify for the 750 hr Military R-ATP. If I can squeeze out another 250 hrs from Uncle Sam in the next couple years, while simultaneously building my 250 FW hours and appropriate sub-categories, I'll be set to apply with the regionals. A guy in my unit just got an offer following the same plan.

So I know regional pay isn't great, but it has come up recently it seems, to a level I could live on for an extended period of time. AGR pay wins initially though for sure.

The reason I have 0 hr FW currently is we are paying off debt first. And a few more payments on the car will have us debt free (minus mortgage). At that point the very next thing on our financial list to tackle is my PPL. When I say tackle I mean it too, I have a local FI that will give me $80/hr lessons, and I intend to make him almost regret it.

Having only mortgage debt, with substantial equity, a decent emergency savings account, and a working wife who supports my decision should help.

I guess its easy to tell which route I am leaning towards. I do enjoy flying for the Army quite a bit though. Unfortunately going AGR wouldn't net me much for Army flight time.

Sliceback

Get an RJ job. Fly your brains out. Grab as many man days as you can. I never dropped airline pay for AD pay. You're not chasing pay, you're chasing resume improvement. Worst month was 13 days on orders and 73 hrs at the airline. It's a grind. The faster you grind the sooner you'll be competitive. It sucks. Embrace it. :-(

If you don't have a four year degree your odds, right now, of getting on with one of the Big 4 is close to zero. Have an amazing non college resume, or really know the right people, you might get contacted.

paulpedals

"Embrace the suck" was a way of life in Army flight school, nothing new

I wouldn't expect to get to the majors without some regional time, and by that time hopefully I would have a degree as well.

Thanks for the input!

FlyArmy11

Go check out APTAP.org - Professionals Helping Professionals & post your questions there. Lots of similar Army HELO bubbas bouncing the exact same desires & plans as yourself. Also POCs & gouge on getting into Army Fixed Wing too...good luck!

Slim11

Retired ARNG, SC. While at Comair, I knew some of those involved in APTAP. It's a great resource and organization.

"...and a working wife who supports my decision should help." This is critical. Be absolutely certain she's behind you on this. My ex-wife said she was until she wasn't and we had no children. That held my flying career back more than a little bit. She's also retired ARNG.

If you have the ability, use a military flying club which is Part 141 approved. Then you should be able to use GI Bill benefits after getting your private. Consider getting the ME and PVT concurrently. I know there aren't as many aero clubs in the military as there used to be but some are still around. I used the aero club at Quantico (late 1980s and mid 1990s) and had the benefit of flying with some retired military IPs.

Good luck, soldier!

Otterbox

Check the FERS benefit guide- you can get credit for a deferred retirement with a lot less than 17 years... I think it's 5yrs. It's not a lot, but it's something for time served while you build hrs.

kme9418

That's civil service retirement which is separate and additional to a military retirement. Yes, you have to do 5 years to become vested. You can also buy back your active duty military time into civil service. It all depends on cumulative pay but it's ROUGHLY $1K for every year of active duty you want to buy back for civil service. I did 5 years civil service + 9 years of active duty. Wrote a check for $11K and now I have a 14 year civil service retirement which equates to about $14K per year starting at age 57.