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Advise on transitioning next year

Old 05-28-2016, 08:05 AM
  #1  
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Default Advise on transitioning next year

New member here. Love the info on this forum and I'm trying to soak it all up.

I can retire next summer and I'm starting to feel the crunch. There's a lot I feel I need to accomplish in my final year to make myself marketable. My goal is to make it to the airlines within 2 years of exiting the Marines. Here's a few things I'm weighing. I'd appreciate any advise on how to approach it and/or what to place a higher priority on. I'll be exiting with around 1500TT (1000 MV-22).

- Flying the MV-22 doesn't give me the FW PIC hours for the ATP. I expect to do a minimum of a year of civilian flying. Any downside to taking an oversees job (L3 type job) over a regional?

- I'm about 60 hours shy on FW PIC. Should I just pay for some Cessna hours and get the ATP done before retiring or would I just wasting money if I'll be flying regionals/charter afterwards?

- I read that many airlines using third party services to pool applicants and quals can build you points. I'm NSI, FRSI, STANI, ANI, Inst evaluator. Is there any value in testing out with the FSDO for a CFII, even if I don't plan on instructing? Also, is there anything else that would be looked upon favorably (other quals, ground jobs, volunteering, recommendations, etc.)?

Thanks a lot in advance.
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Old 05-28-2016, 09:21 AM
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Neptune, Chesty Puller is rolling over in his grave over your use of advise. It is advice. I bring it up because you never know what will discriminate you from your competition and that is glaring to anyone who grew up without spell check. On a different note, not sure how MV-22 time is counted, but if you have 750 hours of mil PIC you qualify for an ATP. LT's in my sqd were getting on with regionals using all kinds of sim and time reductions from the military. If you are retiring go to a regional and let them pay for your ATP while you collect your check. Good resume builder while you build enough time to be competitive for a major job. Be sure and log your ME/IP/instructor time. It is huge in the civilian world. Go take the mil equivalency test to convert your MIL IP into CFII. All you pay for is the test and you get ratings. You can't beat it. If you give checkrides for NATOPS/STAN you are the equivalent of a check airman. Put it on your resume. You might even be able to get the civilian equivalent of NSI on your certificate. Go take the written for the ATP, you'll need it to get hired. I knew several guys who went the contractor route after AD, they seem to go down a rabbit hole. The money is better and it is sometimes a cooler job, but they tend to stay in these jobs far too long. The people who went the regional route tend to surpass them in getting to a major quicker, if that is your ultimate goal. In full disclosure, I did the AD to Guard/regional road. It wasn't always easy, but it was worth leaving AD for. Best of luck.
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Old 05-28-2016, 11:11 AM
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This thread discusses a few of the questions you have:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mi...ap-advice.html
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Old 05-28-2016, 11:42 AM
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Thanks for the responses (and advice).

Brillo, good info in the other thread. I'm assuming you're also coming down to the FRS soon? If so, I look forward to chatting with you about this.
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Old 05-28-2016, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Neptune View Post
New member here. Love the info on this forum and I'm trying to soak it all up.

I can retire next summer and I'm starting to feel the crunch. There's a lot I feel I need to accomplish in my final year to make myself marketable. My goal is to make it to the airlines within 2 years of exiting the Marines. Here's a few things I'm weighing. I'd appreciate any advise on how to approach it and/or what to place a higher priority on. I'll be exiting with around 1500TT (1000 MV-22).

- Flying the MV-22 doesn't give me the FW PIC hours for the ATP. I expect to do a minimum of a year of civilian flying. Any downside to taking an oversees job (L3 type job) over a regional?

- I'm about 60 hours shy on FW PIC. Should I just pay for some Cessna hours and get the ATP done before retiring or would I just wasting money if I'll be flying regionals/charter afterwards?

- I read that many airlines using third party services to pool applicants and quals can build you points. I'm NSI, FRSI, STANI, ANI, Inst evaluator. Is there any value in testing out with the FSDO for a CFII, even if I don't plan on instructing? Also, is there anything else that would be looked upon favorably (other quals, ground jobs, volunteering, recommendations, etc.)?

Thanks a lot in advance.
What is your hours breakdown (aircraft flown/hrs outside of MV22 and PIC hours)?

Any B Billet time as a JTAC or FAC?

Are you an ASO?

Clearance up to date?

What FAA licenses/ ratings do you have?

I only ask because you're not giving enough info to determine if you're competitive for a job with an overseas contractor. I just saw one company say "Thanks and we'll keep you in mind if we're short even more pilots" to an Army helo dude turned RJ FO.

If you don't hit all the wickets for an ISR gig but are kinda sorta maybe close, the bubba network can help immensely In getting you a class date there. It's a fairly easy transition as a military guy- there are a lot of JOs seperating and a few O-4s and O-5s retiring into the job these days. You'll make as much in 6 months of rotations as your average O-5/20. Downside is you're gone 6 months a year.

Checkout the L-3 career listings for Pilot 2 and Pilot 3 and see how close you are to meeting the requirements. If you have some JTAC/FAC/ combat arms time in your past that could help bridge any gaps.
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Old 05-31-2016, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Otterbox View Post
What is your hours breakdown (aircraft flown/hrs outside of MV22 and PIC hours)?

Any B Billet time as a JTAC or FAC?

Are you an ASO?

Clearance up to date?

What FAA licenses/ ratings do you have?

I only ask because you're not giving enough info to determine if you're competitive for a job with an overseas contractor. I just saw one company say "Thanks and we'll keep you in mind if we're short even more pilots" to an Army helo dude turned RJ FO.

If you don't hit all the wickets for an ISR gig but are kinda sorta maybe close, the bubba network can help immensely In getting you a class date there. It's a fairly easy transition as a military guy- there are a lot of JOs seperating and a few O-4s and O-5s retiring into the job these days. You'll make as much in 6 months of rotations as your average O-5/20. Downside is you're gone 6 months a year.

Checkout the L-3 career listings for Pilot 2 and Pilot 3 and see how close you are to meeting the requirements. If you have some JTAC/FAC/ combat arms time in your past that could help bridge any gaps.
TT - 1150
PIC ~ 850 (FW PIC - 200)
MV-22 - 900
T-34 - 100
TC-12/Be-200 - 100
TH-57 - 50 helo
MEL ~ 1000
Commercial cert

No to FAC and ASO. Clearance is up to date.

I work with a few guys that have overseas flying experience. Some reservists are still doing it at L3 or elsewhere. Referrals seems to weigh more heavily than a strong resume. I realize those jobs can be tough to get without using the bubba network. They're interviewing guys with my similar experience, so I think it may be an option for me. It pays well and I think I'd enjoy it for a year or so. Like you mentioned, it would be a nice transition job while I build some more ME time.

However, if the regionals are preferred by airlines, I don't mind doing that for 12-18 months. There's a huge difference in pay between those two routes, so I just want to make an informed decision.
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Old 05-31-2016, 05:03 AM
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I'd network amongst the MV-22 community that moved on to the airlines and find out what their resumes, to include FW experience, was when they got hired.

Chase the resume, not the pay.
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Old 05-31-2016, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Neptune View Post
I work with a few guys that have overseas flying experience. Some reservists are still doing it at L3 or elsewhere. Referrals seems to weigh more heavily than a strong resume. I realize those jobs can be tough to get without using the bubba network. They're interviewing guys with my similar experience, so I think it may be an option for me. It pays well and I think I'd enjoy it for a year or so. Like you mentioned, it would be a nice transition job while I build some more ME time.

However, if the regionals are preferred by airlines, I don't mind doing that for 12-18 months. There's a huge difference in pay between those two routes, so I just want to make an informed decision.
That's ultimately what this discussion comes down to for retiring guys who aren't immediately primed to move on to a second-career-destination-airline.

The answer for you may be "both", unfortunately.

Given that tilt-rotor time lives in a gray area for the major airlines, you're going to need to fly off more multi turbine fixed wing time to be really competitive on the open market. Both the overseas contractors and the regionals will build time quickly compared to the military. You'll easily get 600-800 hours in your first year at a regional (you won't be flying those first couple months during training, unfortunately), and the contractors will build a lot of hours, too.

I have a couple of acquaintances who retired from the AF non-current, and their solution was to do a couple of tours with the contractors to build up the bank account, and then signed on with a regional to get that 121 experience (as that seems to be where the majors are hiring from more than from the contractors).
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Old 05-31-2016, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Neptune View Post
TT - 1150
PIC ~ 850 (FW PIC - 200)
MV-22 - 900
T-34 - 100
TC-12/Be-200 - 100
TH-57 - 50 helo
MEL ~ 1000
Commercial cert

No to FAC and ASO. Clearance is up to date.

I work with a few guys that have overseas flying experience. Some reservists are still doing it at L3 or elsewhere. Referrals seems to weigh more heavily than a strong resume. I realize those jobs can be tough to get without using the bubba network. They're interviewing guys with my similar experience, so I think it may be an option for me. It pays well and I think I'd enjoy it for a year or so. Like you mentioned, it would be a nice transition job while I build some more ME time.

However, if the regionals are preferred by airlines, I don't mind doing that for 12-18 months. There's a huge difference in pay between those two routes, so I just want to make an informed decision.
ISR is a great job and L3 is probably as good as that gig gets. Active clearance is a huge plus. Really enjoyed the experience but i was in the maintain currency mode, not the build time mode. The Regionals are probably your optimal route particularly if you can get on at one that is based near your current home. The regionals also prepare you much better for the airlines because the training is a different experience for an all military guy, and the job, specifically from flows and taxiing to VNAV/automation to bidding is very different. In my experience RJ experienced folks had a much easier time in training.

Good luck
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