Regional Pups and the Military
07-25-2016, 01:37 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: left seat CRJ (again!)
Posts: 349
Started with an airline as a flight attendant, then got into the ANG. Pilot training started a couple of years later.
Medically disqualified after starting UPT. Switched to ARNG and used GI-Bill to finish flight training. Stayed in the ARNG and retired after 20 years.
Ultimately hired by Comair in 1997 and stayed until the end. Now at my third airline as a pilot and fourth overall. Too stupid or too stubborn to give it up...still trying to figure out which!
I wouldn't trade my military career for anything. The friendships, on the ground and in the air, are invaluable.
Medically disqualified after starting UPT. Switched to ARNG and used GI-Bill to finish flight training. Stayed in the ARNG and retired after 20 years.
Ultimately hired by Comair in 1997 and stayed until the end. Now at my third airline as a pilot and fourth overall. Too stupid or too stubborn to give it up...still trying to figure out which!
I wouldn't trade my military career for anything. The friendships, on the ground and in the air, are invaluable.
07-25-2016, 03:11 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Retired to saddle of my horse
Posts: 47
I did 20 AD and had a very unusual career. Nonrated my first 4 years and the next 16 in the cockpit with no desk. Then 19 years with Airlines. One out of business and another used bankruptcy to get out of paying pensions. Military retirement is my main source of income. Staying in was the smartest thing I ever did, and the flying was way more fun than staring out the window for 5 hours at a time.
07-25-2016, 05:03 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757/767 Capt
Posts: 642
I was accepted to law school in the summer of 1984, been taking flying lessons with a friend who was a CFI, just for kicks. He was barely charging me for flight time. In the weeks before law school started, I read the book "The Right Stuff". It was like an epiphany to me. Started law school and took the first baby steps towards joining the Air Force. By the time I finished my first year of Law
school I found out I was accepted for a UPT slot. I decided that this was a major life decision and I always vowed to never be like "Those cold timid souls who know neither great victory nor utter defeat" (to quote Teddy Roosevelt) I took a leave of absence from law school, in case UPT didn't go well, (50% washout rate back then). BEST decision I ever made! We washed out half the class, but I graduated, wanted fighters, but got a C-141, in my first few years I flew around the world 10 times over, saw the leaning tower of Pisa, the Queen of England, Red Square when the Soviets were still in charge, broke the sound barrier before I was 24 years old, combat in Panama, Desert Shield/Storm. Flew missions I can't tell anyone about. Pulled up to another jet in mid-air at 300 knots and connected to a 6 inch boom to refuel, at night, and never broke a sweat, Had women from all over the world, flew with fellow brothers who also made the same decision I did, and never, never regretted for one second leaving law school. Did 7years Active Duty, and 21 years Reserves, and got hired at a major Cargo Company in 1995. I'll retire in 6 years from UPS (60 yrs old) because I have a military retirement, plus the medical benefits which is very important if you want to retire from Civvy flying before age 65.
I have a saying that I like,
"You can't steal second with one foot on first base"
Hope I answered your question��. Do It!
school I found out I was accepted for a UPT slot. I decided that this was a major life decision and I always vowed to never be like "Those cold timid souls who know neither great victory nor utter defeat" (to quote Teddy Roosevelt) I took a leave of absence from law school, in case UPT didn't go well, (50% washout rate back then). BEST decision I ever made! We washed out half the class, but I graduated, wanted fighters, but got a C-141, in my first few years I flew around the world 10 times over, saw the leaning tower of Pisa, the Queen of England, Red Square when the Soviets were still in charge, broke the sound barrier before I was 24 years old, combat in Panama, Desert Shield/Storm. Flew missions I can't tell anyone about. Pulled up to another jet in mid-air at 300 knots and connected to a 6 inch boom to refuel, at night, and never broke a sweat, Had women from all over the world, flew with fellow brothers who also made the same decision I did, and never, never regretted for one second leaving law school. Did 7years Active Duty, and 21 years Reserves, and got hired at a major Cargo Company in 1995. I'll retire in 6 years from UPS (60 yrs old) because I have a military retirement, plus the medical benefits which is very important if you want to retire from Civvy flying before age 65.
I have a saying that I like,
"You can't steal second with one foot on first base"
Hope I answered your question��. Do It!
07-25-2016, 05:20 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by Vito
I was accepted to law school in the summer of 1984, been taking flying lessons with a friend who was a CFI, just for kicks. He was barely charging me for flight time. In the weeks before law school started, I read the book "The Right Stuff". It was like an epiphany to me. Started law school and took the first baby steps towards joining the Air Force. By the time I finished my first year of Law
school I found out I was accepted for a UPT slot. I decided that this was a major life decision and I always vowed to never be like "Those cold timid souls who know neither great victory nor utter defeat" (to quote Teddy Roosevelt) I took a leave of absence from law school, in case UPT didn't go well, (50% washout rate back then). BEST decision I ever made! We washed out half the class, but I graduated, wanted fighters, but got a C-141, in my first few years I flew around the world 10 times over, saw the leaning tower of Pisa, the Queen of England, Red Square when the Soviets were still in charge, broke the sound barrier before I was 24 years old, combat in Panama, Desert Shield/Storm. Flew missions I can't tell anyone about. Pulled up to another jet in mid-air at 300 knots and connected to a 6 inch boom to refuel, at night, and never broke a sweat, Had women from all over the world, flew with fellow brothers who also made the same decision I did, and never, never regretted for one second leaving law school. Did 7years Active Duty, and 21 years Reserves, and got hired at a major Cargo Company in 1995. I'll retire in 6 years from UPS (60 yrs old) because I have a military retirement, plus the medical benefits which is very important if you want to retire from Civvy flying before age 65.
I have a saying that I like,
"You can't steal second with one foot on first base"
Hope I answered your question��. Do It!
school I found out I was accepted for a UPT slot. I decided that this was a major life decision and I always vowed to never be like "Those cold timid souls who know neither great victory nor utter defeat" (to quote Teddy Roosevelt) I took a leave of absence from law school, in case UPT didn't go well, (50% washout rate back then). BEST decision I ever made! We washed out half the class, but I graduated, wanted fighters, but got a C-141, in my first few years I flew around the world 10 times over, saw the leaning tower of Pisa, the Queen of England, Red Square when the Soviets were still in charge, broke the sound barrier before I was 24 years old, combat in Panama, Desert Shield/Storm. Flew missions I can't tell anyone about. Pulled up to another jet in mid-air at 300 knots and connected to a 6 inch boom to refuel, at night, and never broke a sweat, Had women from all over the world, flew with fellow brothers who also made the same decision I did, and never, never regretted for one second leaving law school. Did 7years Active Duty, and 21 years Reserves, and got hired at a major Cargo Company in 1995. I'll retire in 6 years from UPS (60 yrs old) because I have a military retirement, plus the medical benefits which is very important if you want to retire from Civvy flying before age 65.
I have a saying that I like,
"You can't steal second with one foot on first base"
Hope I answered your question��. Do It!
07-26-2016, 11:20 AM
#17
Furlough Fodder
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Position: 320A
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by Ispeakjive
1) Have you flown military, and if so, any regrets?
The military itself isn't the greatest path for a lot of pilots though, even for pilots who crave adventure. I've known more than a few pilots who make it through flight training and their JO tours only to spend the last 5 years of their time in the military as desk jockies, recruiters, ROTC instructors, ship's company, etc. They leave their 9-11 year military career with ~1000 hours of flight time and a severance check.
On the other hand, I've met a few non-mil pilots who I really admire who seem to have that sense of adventure... Guys who have their own strange/unique plane or fly tail draggers or seaplanes or WWII planes for air shows just because they're fun and different.
Oh, and continuing a law school theme... I also dropped out of law school to fly for the Navy.
07-26-2016, 07:38 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
20 years, 14 active and 6 ANG.
Zero regrets. Sometimes being on active duty made me feel "stuck", but the perks of flying fast jets in Alaska, Europe, Asia, and the Middle East created enough adventures to offset any frustration with the "system".
More importantly, the things you HAD to do helped give the you the courage, character, and grit to face other challenges later in life. Whether it was land survival school, arctic survival, or air to air refueling in the weather, there were some things that were just downright unpleasant at times that you are so glad later in life that you accomplished. Having the chance to lead other men--as a flight lead, flight commander, or instructor pilot is something very few experience if all they do is fly for an airline. The friendships and camaraderie also tend to be largely timeless.
The first hitch in the military was 7+ years, and it was a rush. Pilot training, T-37s and T-38s, and going to war at 26 during Desert Storm seem like another lifetime ago. Yet--the experiences are real enough that I can still remember certain days and events as if they were yesterday. Learning to fly the F-15 was the hardest thing I ever did professionally, and took me to my physical limits. At times, it scared me, but that kind of healthy fear builds solid aviation habits that last a lifetime.
I recently thought about this as I looked at my airline seniority calculator. I got hired at 36, almost 37 at FedEx. I'll retire at 65 (if I don't bail early) at a projected 450-460 or so on the list. Looking at our bidpacks, there are many, many lines and trips I'll never hold. I will always be fair to middle seniority on about any seat I hold if I chose to chase the dollars and be a wide-body captain (which I hold now). When I look at being seniority number 1 verses flying fighters for 20 years, there is no comparison. I have gotten about 95% of the benefit of being an airline pilot, while the guy or gal hired at 25 has gotten 0% of the benefits I got as a military fighter pilot. I had the chance to bail in 1996, but stayed until 2001/2 with a 7 year pilot bonus. During that 7 years, I lived in Germany, was a flight commander and IP, flew combat CAPs over Iraq, led Red Flags as an Air to Air Mission Commander, went to Aerospace Physiology school, and flew about 800-900 more hours in the Eagle. I went TDY all over Europe, and as a schoolhouse IP later did some pretty cool TDYs in the states too. When I look at how those 7 years shaped me, and what I learned about myself along the way, the 1000 or so line numbers pale in comparison. As a captain in my domicile, I won't hold Christmas or the 4th of July vacations. I can live with that. Being rich is more than about having money, its about having a life full of experiences. There is simply nothing that could have substituted for the experience, and I would be a lesser person had I missed those opportunities.
Zero regrets. Sometimes being on active duty made me feel "stuck", but the perks of flying fast jets in Alaska, Europe, Asia, and the Middle East created enough adventures to offset any frustration with the "system".
More importantly, the things you HAD to do helped give the you the courage, character, and grit to face other challenges later in life. Whether it was land survival school, arctic survival, or air to air refueling in the weather, there were some things that were just downright unpleasant at times that you are so glad later in life that you accomplished. Having the chance to lead other men--as a flight lead, flight commander, or instructor pilot is something very few experience if all they do is fly for an airline. The friendships and camaraderie also tend to be largely timeless.
The first hitch in the military was 7+ years, and it was a rush. Pilot training, T-37s and T-38s, and going to war at 26 during Desert Storm seem like another lifetime ago. Yet--the experiences are real enough that I can still remember certain days and events as if they were yesterday. Learning to fly the F-15 was the hardest thing I ever did professionally, and took me to my physical limits. At times, it scared me, but that kind of healthy fear builds solid aviation habits that last a lifetime.
I recently thought about this as I looked at my airline seniority calculator. I got hired at 36, almost 37 at FedEx. I'll retire at 65 (if I don't bail early) at a projected 450-460 or so on the list. Looking at our bidpacks, there are many, many lines and trips I'll never hold. I will always be fair to middle seniority on about any seat I hold if I chose to chase the dollars and be a wide-body captain (which I hold now). When I look at being seniority number 1 verses flying fighters for 20 years, there is no comparison. I have gotten about 95% of the benefit of being an airline pilot, while the guy or gal hired at 25 has gotten 0% of the benefits I got as a military fighter pilot. I had the chance to bail in 1996, but stayed until 2001/2 with a 7 year pilot bonus. During that 7 years, I lived in Germany, was a flight commander and IP, flew combat CAPs over Iraq, led Red Flags as an Air to Air Mission Commander, went to Aerospace Physiology school, and flew about 800-900 more hours in the Eagle. I went TDY all over Europe, and as a schoolhouse IP later did some pretty cool TDYs in the states too. When I look at how those 7 years shaped me, and what I learned about myself along the way, the 1000 or so line numbers pale in comparison. As a captain in my domicile, I won't hold Christmas or the 4th of July vacations. I can live with that. Being rich is more than about having money, its about having a life full of experiences. There is simply nothing that could have substituted for the experience, and I would be a lesser person had I missed those opportunities.
07-26-2016, 08:17 PM
#19
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Originally Posted by Albief15
20 years, 14 active and 6 ANG.
Zero regrets. Sometimes being on active duty made me feel "stuck", but the perks of flying fast jets in Alaska, Europe, Asia, and the Middle East created enough adventures to offset any frustration with the "system".
More importantly, the things you HAD to do helped give the you the courage, character, and grit to face other challenges later in life. Whether it was land survival school, arctic survival, or air to air refueling in the weather, there were some things that were just downright unpleasant at times that you are so glad later in life that you accomplished. Having the chance to lead other men--as a flight lead, flight commander, or instructor pilot is something very few experience if all they do is fly for an airline. The friendships and camaraderie also tend to be largely timeless.
The first hitch in the military was 7+ years, and it was a rush. Pilot training, T-37s and T-38s, and going to war at 26 during Desert Storm seem like another lifetime ago. Yet--the experiences are real enough that I can still remember certain days and events as if they were yesterday. Learning to fly the F-15 was the hardest thing I ever did professionally, and took me to my physical limits. At times, it scared me, but that kind of healthy fear builds solid aviation habits that last a lifetime.
I recently thought about this as I looked at my airline seniority calculator. I got hired at 36, almost 37 at FedEx. I'll retire at 65 (if I don't bail early) at a projected 450-460 or so on the list. Looking at our bidpacks, there are many, many lines and trips I'll never hold. I will always be fair to middle seniority on about any seat I hold if I chose to chase the dollars and be a wide-body captain (which I hold now). When I look at being seniority number 1 verses flying fighters for 20 years, there is no comparison. I have gotten about 95% of the benefit of being an airline pilot, while the guy or gal hired at 25 has gotten 0% of the benefits I got as a military fighter pilot. I had the chance to bail in 1996, but stayed until 2001/2 with a 7 year pilot bonus. During that 7 years, I lived in Germany, was a flight commander and IP, flew combat CAPs over Iraq, led Red Flags as an Air to Air Mission Commander, went to Aerospace Physiology school, and flew about 800-900 more hours in the Eagle. I went TDY all over Europe, and as a schoolhouse IP later did some pretty cool TDYs in the states too. When I look at how those 7 years shaped me, and what I learned about myself along the way, the 1000 or so line numbers pale in comparison. As a captain in my domicile, I won't hold Christmas or the 4th of July vacations. I can live with that. Being rich is more than about having money, its about having a life full of experiences. There is simply nothing that could have substituted for the experience, and I would be a lesser person had I missed those opportunities.
Zero regrets. Sometimes being on active duty made me feel "stuck", but the perks of flying fast jets in Alaska, Europe, Asia, and the Middle East created enough adventures to offset any frustration with the "system".
More importantly, the things you HAD to do helped give the you the courage, character, and grit to face other challenges later in life. Whether it was land survival school, arctic survival, or air to air refueling in the weather, there were some things that were just downright unpleasant at times that you are so glad later in life that you accomplished. Having the chance to lead other men--as a flight lead, flight commander, or instructor pilot is something very few experience if all they do is fly for an airline. The friendships and camaraderie also tend to be largely timeless.
The first hitch in the military was 7+ years, and it was a rush. Pilot training, T-37s and T-38s, and going to war at 26 during Desert Storm seem like another lifetime ago. Yet--the experiences are real enough that I can still remember certain days and events as if they were yesterday. Learning to fly the F-15 was the hardest thing I ever did professionally, and took me to my physical limits. At times, it scared me, but that kind of healthy fear builds solid aviation habits that last a lifetime.
I recently thought about this as I looked at my airline seniority calculator. I got hired at 36, almost 37 at FedEx. I'll retire at 65 (if I don't bail early) at a projected 450-460 or so on the list. Looking at our bidpacks, there are many, many lines and trips I'll never hold. I will always be fair to middle seniority on about any seat I hold if I chose to chase the dollars and be a wide-body captain (which I hold now). When I look at being seniority number 1 verses flying fighters for 20 years, there is no comparison. I have gotten about 95% of the benefit of being an airline pilot, while the guy or gal hired at 25 has gotten 0% of the benefits I got as a military fighter pilot. I had the chance to bail in 1996, but stayed until 2001/2 with a 7 year pilot bonus. During that 7 years, I lived in Germany, was a flight commander and IP, flew combat CAPs over Iraq, led Red Flags as an Air to Air Mission Commander, went to Aerospace Physiology school, and flew about 800-900 more hours in the Eagle. I went TDY all over Europe, and as a schoolhouse IP later did some pretty cool TDYs in the states too. When I look at how those 7 years shaped me, and what I learned about myself along the way, the 1000 or so line numbers pale in comparison. As a captain in my domicile, I won't hold Christmas or the 4th of July vacations. I can live with that. Being rich is more than about having money, its about having a life full of experiences. There is simply nothing that could have substituted for the experience, and I would be a lesser person had I missed those opportunities.
07-27-2016, 05:33 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757/767 Capt
Posts: 642
Albie,
Great post! You touched upon the experiences and subtle and profound events that define a person. You mentioned fear when you were training in the Eagle, but the good kind of fear that builds character and confidence, that is unmatched in civilian flying. I'm a short guy, never a big athlete, or big man on campus type. I remember how frightening it was to fly fingertip in -38's at one point I was looking UP at my lead as we sliced down towards the ground. I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that I was underneath another jet, looking up at him, and he wasn't going to fall on top of my jet. I kept my cool and stayed in position even though I was really freaked out about the whole situation. A few weeks later I'm back on leave at a nightclub. I silently drank my beer watching all the tough guys at the bar and thought, there's probably nobody here that has the balls to do what we do flying those Jets the way we do. All the muscles, and tatto's don't mean **** until you've been challenged to the point of shear terror, and walked away from it. You don't find that in the Airlines..
There's a passage in the book "The Right Stuff" that Thomas Wolfe eloquently describes how the quiet young Man in the corner with the big watch, listens to the businessmen discussing their business dealings as if it were a battlefield, and they were in a war with their competitors. He describes the quiet young fighter pilot, as just smirking at the bragging and bravado of the businessmen, knowing that he was the only one worthy of bragging (but didn't) at the cocktail party
Great post! You touched upon the experiences and subtle and profound events that define a person. You mentioned fear when you were training in the Eagle, but the good kind of fear that builds character and confidence, that is unmatched in civilian flying. I'm a short guy, never a big athlete, or big man on campus type. I remember how frightening it was to fly fingertip in -38's at one point I was looking UP at my lead as we sliced down towards the ground. I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that I was underneath another jet, looking up at him, and he wasn't going to fall on top of my jet. I kept my cool and stayed in position even though I was really freaked out about the whole situation. A few weeks later I'm back on leave at a nightclub. I silently drank my beer watching all the tough guys at the bar and thought, there's probably nobody here that has the balls to do what we do flying those Jets the way we do. All the muscles, and tatto's don't mean **** until you've been challenged to the point of shear terror, and walked away from it. You don't find that in the Airlines..
There's a passage in the book "The Right Stuff" that Thomas Wolfe eloquently describes how the quiet young Man in the corner with the big watch, listens to the businessmen discussing their business dealings as if it were a battlefield, and they were in a war with their competitors. He describes the quiet young fighter pilot, as just smirking at the bragging and bravado of the businessmen, knowing that he was the only one worthy of bragging (but didn't) at the cocktail party
