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Pension confusion

Old 09-03-2016, 06:20 AM
  #11  
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JDfly, it isn't an airline pension that should be driving your decisionmaking (because, as has been said, outside of FedEx and UPS, it is a non-factor).

What should be driving your decisionmaking is seniority at your future airline. As in, with every day that passes, you are losing ability to gain seniority at airlines that are currently hiring like madmen. As was said, a year of waiting is potentially 500-1,000 people hired in front of you at any of the big three legacies or the cargo haulers. Two or three years is 2000+ people ahead of you on the seniority list for the rest of your professional career. That could be a make-or-break difference in your airline career for schedules, seats, payscales, etc. It will be a career-long impact that you'll never be able to change.

Now, imagine those same 2,000 people behind you on the seniority list, and how that would impact your ability to do those things. Financial irresponsibility is one thing...but think of the ability (or non-ability) to bid widebody or premium flying based on seniority. That's where the real financial impact is going to be...not separating too early and having a "gap year" between retirement and working at your career destination airline.

If you can get the 20-year military retirement now, then get your airline applications in order and set a retirement date instead of taking another assignment and delaying getting a seniority number even longer. If you aren't hired by the major you want by that time, then go fly for the regionals (or do ISR contracting) while you keep current and wait for the call.

I didn't have a major job when I hit my terminal leave date, so I worked for a year at a regional airline before I was hired on at a major airline. Pay was crap at the regionals (the full active duty pay while on terminal and the pension made it much easier), but I got about 600 hours of flying, a type rating, and a ton of valuable experience about 121 airline flying that was a goldmine in and of itself.
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Old 09-03-2016, 08:20 AM
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^^^shack^^^
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Old 09-03-2016, 03:05 PM
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Hacker/Grumble,

Ok, ok, you are convincing me. BTW, I was just asking about the pension thing because I didn't understand it. It was certainly not a driver. Just a minor blip on my pluses and minuses bar napkin. But the thread has evolved into something more relevant to my situation.

Question: Part of my fear of flying for a regional is the logistics. If I have the military move my family to where we want to settle (Greenville, SC), is it reasonable to deadhead to/crashpad in Minneapolis (if Endeavor picks me up). I've heard it is a nightmare to try to commute from any distance in the regionals. If we move to MN, we could end up moving again in less than a year (if I'm lucky). Recommendation?

p.s. I'm thinking...hmmm 6-9 months getting great 121 experience and 400+ hours with crap pay and commuting nightmare, or 9-12 months with Lt Col pay, 100-200 hours, and another move paid for by the USAF. Note: I have three vehicles spread out on the east coast, etc. In the big scheme of life, probably not a driving factor, but all these little things seem to add up and say....just do one more year in the AF....but your email above has me second guessing, for sure!
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JDfly View Post
Question: Part of my fear of flying for a regional is the logistics. If I have the military move my family to where we want to settle (Greenville, SC), is it reasonable to deadhead to/crashpad in Minneapolis (if Endeavor picks me up). I've heard it is a nightmare to try to commute from any distance in the regionals. If we move to MN, we could end up moving again in less than a year (if I'm lucky). Recommendation?
You just have to think of spending time at a regional like your last "remote" or "deployment". Have your family financially and emotionally prepared to spend 12-18 months flying for and commuting to a regional. It will be time away from home, investing in a much better future job.

Move your family using Uncle Sam's dime to where you want to live permanently (and somewhere that hopefully has good options for commuting once you get your "career destination" job), and go get a regional job with the shortest commute from there. DO NOT MOVE YOUR FAMILY TO A REGIONAL BASE, period. You're hoping to not be there very long...so do your family the favor of settling them in wherever it is they want to be long term now that Uncle Sam is no longer calling the shots.

If you want to live in Greenville, look at who flies out of there, and to where, and figure out what regional has a junior base at that other location. PSA has a Charlotte base, but dunno how junior it goes. GoJet has a Raleigh base. ExpressJet is down in ATL.

It doesn't matter which regional you go to in terms of how it will look on your resume. Again, you're hopefully just doing a touch and go there to stay current and get some 121 experience while you wait for a call up to the big leagues. Don't be swayed by pay, bonus money, aircraft, whatever: the ONLY thing you need to pay attention to is where their junior base is and how easy it will be for you to commute to it.

The bonuses, especially (at places like Endeavor) sound great, but require you to be there for 6 months, a year, 2 years, etc. With any luck, you won't be there long enough to cash in on any of it. Your commute, though, will be the #1 hassle you'll deal with. The meager extra $$ you'll get out of a bonus but having a long commute won't offset the hassle, in my opinion.
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JDfly View Post
p.s. I'm thinking...hmmm 6-9 months getting great 121 experience and 400+ hours with crap pay and commuting nightmare, or 9-12 months with Lt Col pay, 100-200 hours, and another move paid for by the USAF.
It is a gamble either way. IMHO having 121 experience on your resume is going to make you more attractive than more USAF time.
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Old 09-03-2016, 11:35 PM
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You've been a huge help. Thanks Hacker. I just posted a new thread looking for recommendations for a Regional carrier for a family living in Greenville, SC. BTW, I was a Strike Eagle WSO my first couple years....in the Chiefs 1998-2000. Cheers...
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JDfly View Post
You've been a huge help. Thanks Hacker. I just posted a new thread looking for recommendations for a Regional carrier for a family living in Greenville, SC. BTW, I was a Strike Eagle WSO my first couple years....in the Chiefs 1998-2000. Cheers...
I hear you can take the Monkey out of the Trunk, but you never can take the Trunk out of the Monkey...
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:59 AM
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You just be sure not to **** one off. You've seen what happens right?
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Old 09-04-2016, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JDfly View Post
I was a Strike Eagle WSO my first couple years....in the Chiefs 1998-2000. Cheers...
I was a yellow tail from '00 to '03, so our paths must have crossed at some point.

There's no one road that is going to be the perfect way to do it, so your near rocks are going to be doing a lot of reading and research here and elsewhere. You're going to have to take some leaps of faith along the way (like perhaps establishing a retirement date without having a job offer lined up yet) and pick somewhere you'd like to fly based on incomplete information that may not even completely apply to your situation. There are several other retiring dudes like yourself here on APC who have asked many of the same questions and there are some good threads on those topics to read.

It took a year of flying at a regional before I could move on to my career destination. For some guys I know with similar resumes, it was only months of regional or ISR flying before they got the call they wanted. Others took even longer, 18-24 months. It is a marathon, not a sprint, so be prepared for a long ride and be happily surprised if it doesn't end up being one.

While you're doing this, as other posters have said, don't give up on the possibility that you can avoid the regionals all together. Keep plugging away at updating and improving AirlineApps, PilotCredentials, and other applications at the LCCs and Majors. At one point, I was updating 9 different applications (and maintaining customized resumes for each of those applications) every two weeks or so. I hit job fairs, kept acquiring internal recommendations, etc., and although it was a lot of effort over time, it paid off.
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JDfly View Post
You've been a huge help. Thanks Hacker. I just posted a new thread looking for recommendations for a Regional carrier for a family living in Greenville, SC. BTW, I was a Strike Eagle WSO my first couple years....in the Chiefs 1998-2000. Cheers...
I may take some incoming for this...

Being in Greenville, SC you may want to seriously look at PSA. They have a CLT crew base.

You'll be on reserve for a while but, if you're within two hours drive time, you can sit short call reserve at home.

I interviewed with a retired AF C-17 IP in July, 2014. He wanted some 121 time and was recently picked up at Southwest. He never upgraded and left in less than two years.

If you can retire from active duty immediately, so much the better. If you don't have 20 in yet, you might want to look elsewhere.

Retired ARNG...no longer a gray-area retiree.
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