C130driver

I can't imagine many 0-5 possibly 0-6 types settling for a regional, but with military retirement tucked away that's easily 6 figures with retirement + regional income.

At some point many mil types decide what is more important : being an 0-5 in the military with an ever so small chance of being a sq commander or greater, with a high probability of queep, deployments, political correctness albeit a stable retirement income..versus a decade of seniority / millions of dollars, living where they want, and doing what 99% of Military pilots love doing for a profession: flying.

FSF17

I think a bigger problem is going to be keeping people past their initial commitment, at least in the Navy. Guys at the 15 year mark already have a big incentive to stay. Those of us under the 10 year mark do not, at least while the airlines are hiring. Most of the JOs I know are getting out at their earliest convenience.

Separating current is nice, but it's not worth 10 extra years doing staff jobs and boat tours.

Grumble

I know several O-5's who retired from staff jobs non-current and did the regional thing. Most were called by a major inside or at about the 1 year mark.

Dragon7

Albie's proposal is interesting, but two things work against it.

1. The Flag and General Officer Aviators in all services have in excess of 20 years looking down their beaks at "quitters". They stayed and succeeded, and they truly believe almost everybody should stay and compete for that Star like they did. Sadly, i have heard this even from reserve aviator Flags who are airline pilots. As the old saying goes, "Everybody is the hero of their own autobiography". This applies even more to Flags. They are patriots and American heroes for the most part but are subject to group think to an extreme. Have been to several briefings where the Flag proclaimed the Pilot Retention Problem solved, not coincidentally right after 9/11. Not everybody makes that second Star, and a "pilots are special" agenda is a good way to retire with just one. When an 0-3 or 0-4 stands up with a question or sits and tells a Flag they are leaving due to nonflying tours, educational requirements, or family issues, understand that Flag is on a nonflying tour and has been for a while, did several more, has a few masters and a swing through some seminar B school, and has dealt with the family issues more or less successfully. You, young jedi, are a nonhacker. You just don't have the fire in the belly it takes to get to the 0-7 level. They will be polite about it generally, but this is why we can expect no change.

2. History. Like the Air Force, the Navy had the ADO, Aviation Duty Officer program in the late 80s to combat that airline hiring wave. When new Flags showed up at the Bureau, the idea was scrapped, and those "ADOs" were soon underway. No program survives the Flag who thought of it's change of command.

Lagniappe: Noncurrent 0-5s and 0-6s are going to the Regionals, Corporate, and ISR jobs and getting to the majors. In a funny way, this may be the biggest challenge to overall retention. When a JO is talking to his detailer and theJO knows the detailer is leaving for a flying job on the outside the worm has really turned.

This will get worse before it gets better.

FlewNavy

Not sure if I agree with Dragon7's assessment of Flag Officers.

Most Flag pilots I have worked with don't define their success as aviators and here is one root causes of the "crisis". There comes a time in the 13-15 year mark where aviators are supposed to transition from being pilots to "organizational leaders". There are some great organizational leaders that simply would prefer to be pilots and vice versa.

The folks that identify as pilots first will leave. Those that want to be senior officers will stay until either the path becomes too painful or until they can't promote.

The retention problem falls in the 13-15 year window where we need Major/LCDRs. There will always be enough O5s and O6s to fill the few flying slots the military has in those grades.

Dragon7

Here is the heart of the matter. We agree.

FlewNavy

Perhaps the blended retirement system will help. It will allow folks to stay until 13-15 years (mostly flying) and then leave with something. The only reason to stay from 15-20 is if you are one of the chosen few who get operational flying jobs as an O5 AND don't object to the steadily increasing BS.

PurpleToolBox

I'm not disagreeing with Albie's proposal. It is an immediate fix to the problem.

Long term...

Our country recognizes ship Captains as national assets and critical to the economy. We created the Merchant Marine academy to supply qualified crew members to the shipping industry.

Our country should recognize the same for airmen and create an equal school and produce pilots.

TSRAGR

Last I checked "Home of the Fighter Pilot" is back. For now...

Merle Dixon

Good idea Albie. Alas, it is too little too late. I am a traditional reservist and IP at an AF SUPT base. I also fly for United. EVERY active-duty IP I know is leaving big blue as soon as possible for the airlines (MAF and CAF pilot alike).

The active duty folks are constantly picking our brains about the reserve/guard and our airline jobs. They stand gaped jawed when I explain that I am gone from home 12 to 13 nights a month for my airline job and I earn more than the wing commander.

They are sick of working perpetual 12-hour days and being coerced to fly weekends now and then. They despise the multitude of additional duties, queep, online training, don't be a rapist training, don't kill yourself training, DTS, and on and on and on. The active duty folks rarely smile and generally they all seem grumpy. Morale is low, very low.

They fully realize seniority is king and with United, Delta, American, FedEx and Southwest just starting their hiring booms - they are not going to hang out in the AF hoping things get better. They know things will not get better. Since 9/11 big blue has utterly abused the pilot force because the pilots had no where else to go. Well, dem chickens iz comin home to roost.

Word on the street is that the AF is going to increase maximum flight pay to $1,500 per month and raise ACP (aviator continuation pay) to $48,000 per year. It won't be enough. Big Blue is in big trouble.