Hacker15e

As has been said, I agree that it won't be an issue at a regional, but will probably be a speedbump at the majors currently.

The rest of your resume matters, too -- this stuff is all taken in context. I know of military guys with Article 15s and grounded by FEBs who are currently flying at the majors, but those folks also had other positive experiences, awards, qualifications, etc, on their application that made them very attractive candidates. The airlines were willing to take a chance and called them in for the interview, and they were eventually hired.

And, as you said, it is something you're going to have to talk about and own at any interview. The good news is, if they call you in for the interview, they're willing to accept the black mark so long as you take responsibility for it and have honestly learned from it and improved yourself since.

A smart man who does interview prep once said that time spent flying (and being a boy scout) at a 121 regional can help erase black marks from military records. Sort of re-paying your dues, or something.

My take is, don't give up. As the actual "pilot shortage" makes its way to the majors (and who knows when that's gonna be...), the majors are likely going to start considering guys with black marks on their records that they may have otherwise just passed on.

155mm

I was told in interview scenarios to always turn a negative into a positive. A General discharge is under honorable conditions! The fact is, many of us who have served, have multiple discharges. Perhaps if you have more than one bring up the fact that you have two honorable discharges one honorable and one general? I know the airlines need "warm bodies" nowadays but interviewing is also about seeing if you fit in.

rickair7777

The default for officers is Honorable. Anything else is a downgrade. They give discharge downgrades for poor aptitude or honest mistakes, it takes more than that. Airlines understand the system thoroughly.

155mm

That's impressive if the "airlines understand the system thoroughly." My point is that you have to be prepared in an interview to turn a negative into a positive whether you interview for an airline or a burger joint! The OP said he, "screwed up and learned from it" that's turning a negative into a positive! However, "It is generally illegal to ask which type of discharge a military veteran received, unless it is to ask whether or not an applicant received an Honorable or General Discharge if you are ascertaining whether or not the applicant qualifies for veteran’s preference."


Types of Military Discharges - Understand Discharge Ratings

"A General military discharge is a form of administrative discharge.......Under Honorable Conditions"

"If an officer is discharged by a general court-martial, they receive a Dismissal notice which is the same as a dishonorable discharge."

KC10 FATboy

The DD214 will tell on you. The codes at the bottom tell the employer why and what you were discharged for. The employers know the codes.

tomgoodman

The offense categories should be modified to reflect modern sensibilities, for example: "compliance challenged", "creative marching", or "uniform diversity".

155mm

"Employers may not ask a candidate why they were discharged from the military or to see their discharge papers (DD-214)except when the employer has a bona fide occupational qualification (BFOQ) for doing so (i.e., state job veteran preference, or security clearance). A veteran’s reason for military discharge is protected by USERRA. "

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtoo...ryservice.aspx

http://pilotlawcorp.com/areas-of-practice/userra/#2

With that said, some airlines require, "Eligibility for issuance of US Security Clearance".

60av8tor

So when I go to my mainline interview (if it even gets to that point) I'm just gonna refuse to hand over my 214 - I'll use your quotes - and, while I'm at it, refuse to fork over my OPRs/OERs That should land me the job for sure...

rickair7777

Huh??? You're just googling stuff out of context...

USERRA allows employers to request to see a DD214 with discharge characterization to verify that an employee returning from leave got an "honorable characterization". A General-under-honorable should work fine in that case because that is the bar specified in USERRA for an employee to return after mil leave. Ie, even if the employer would not have hired the employee in the first place with a general-under-honorable, they still must take that person back after mil leave.

But for initial employment, employers can and will ask for a DD214, and they usually want the long form with discharge character and separation code. The latter can be as problematic as the discharge.

There are no laws which prevent an employer from asking for a DD214, period (unless some state has a weird one). It could open up a discrimination liability issue for an employer, and some HR experts say not to ask, but airlines in general are more than willing to field lawsuits from applicants to preserve the integrity of their pilot screening process. Every airline interview I've had has involved my long-form DD214s.

155mm

"Every airline interview I've had has involved my long-form DD214s."

That quote was from the Society of Human Resource Management, well respected in HR issues!