r-ATP with General Discharge
#1
r-ATP with General Discharge
I was wondering if anyone has dealt with this before. I am planning to go the airline route as I separate, but there is the potential of separating with a General Discharge (under honorable conditions). I am currently appealing for the Honorable, but worst case, I want to know if I should still consider the airlines if it doesn't get upgraded.
According to FAR 61.160 (a)(1): "An official Form DD-214 indicating that the person was honorably discharged" ...
I called the FSDO, and they're looking into it and calling me back. Could this put the kibosh on an airline career?
According to FAR 61.160 (a)(1): "An official Form DD-214 indicating that the person was honorably discharged" ...
I called the FSDO, and they're looking into it and calling me back. Could this put the kibosh on an airline career?
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
I was wondering if anyone has dealt with this before. I am planning to go the airline route as I separate, but there is the potential of separating with a General Discharge (under honorable conditions). I am currently appealing for the Honorable, but worst case, I want to know if I should still consider the airlines if it doesn't get upgraded.
According to FAR 61.160 (a)(1): "An official Form DD-214 indicating that the person was honorably discharged" ...
I called the FSDO, and they're looking into it and calling me back. Could this put the kibosh on an airline career?
According to FAR 61.160 (a)(1): "An official Form DD-214 indicating that the person was honorably discharged" ...
I called the FSDO, and they're looking into it and calling me back. Could this put the kibosh on an airline career?
#3
So the FSDO called me back, saying that he talked to their Legal Department, who talked to a former CDR, who said General (under Honorable Conditions) is good to go for the r-ATP!
Hopefully I get the upgrade and this won't matter but now this info is on the forum in case anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation. FSDO reply for reference:
Hopefully I get the upgrade and this won't matter but now this info is on the forum in case anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation. FSDO reply for reference:
Question from a Mil Comp Applicant:
8900.1 Volume 5, Chapter 3, Section 1, It states that in order for a military pilot to be qualified for a restricted ATP license, one of the requirements is that they must have been honorably discharged from the United States Military. Does this mean that they must specifically receive an "Honorable" discharge, or is a General Discharge acceptable as long as it is under honorable conditions?
Here is what our guidance says:
Military-Trained. A U.S. military pilot or former U.S. military pilot, with a minimum of 750 hours of total time as a pilot, and who has not been removed from flying status for lack of proficiency or because of a disciplinary action involving aircraft operations, may apply for an ATP certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating or an ATP certificate concurrently with an airplane type rating if the pilot presents:
1. An official Form DD-214, Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty, indicating that the person was honorably discharged from the U.S. Armed Forces or an official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows the pilot is currently serving in the U.S. Armed Forces; and
2. An official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows the person graduated from a U.S. Armed Forces undergraduate pilot training school and received a rating qualification as a military pilot.
I gave give you an answer based on my experience as a Squadron and Vice Wing Commander. I have discharged numerous Airmen under Honorable, General and Other than Honorable. Moreover, I have worked with AF General Council on numerous discharges.
Honorable and Other than Honorable are pretty easy to distinguish. A General Discharge can be for medical reasons or for someone's performance that is satisfactory but is marked by a "considerable departure in duty performance and conduct expected of military members." A General Discharge for medical reasons could still be consider under honorable circumstances. A General Discharge for performance can be for Article 15 offenses or criminal offenses that don't reach the Other than Honorable level. Based on what the circumstances of the General Discharge was, they can be limited from some military benefits, and have to acknowledge in writing that there could be "substantial prejudice in civilian life" due to the General Discharge.
So, yes a person that receives a General Discharge under honorable conditions would be acceptable as someone with an "honorable discharge."
Based on this, the pilot qualifies under 61.160.
8900.1 Volume 5, Chapter 3, Section 1, It states that in order for a military pilot to be qualified for a restricted ATP license, one of the requirements is that they must have been honorably discharged from the United States Military. Does this mean that they must specifically receive an "Honorable" discharge, or is a General Discharge acceptable as long as it is under honorable conditions?
Here is what our guidance says:
Military-Trained. A U.S. military pilot or former U.S. military pilot, with a minimum of 750 hours of total time as a pilot, and who has not been removed from flying status for lack of proficiency or because of a disciplinary action involving aircraft operations, may apply for an ATP certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating or an ATP certificate concurrently with an airplane type rating if the pilot presents:
1. An official Form DD-214, Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty, indicating that the person was honorably discharged from the U.S. Armed Forces or an official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows the pilot is currently serving in the U.S. Armed Forces; and
2. An official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows the person graduated from a U.S. Armed Forces undergraduate pilot training school and received a rating qualification as a military pilot.
I gave give you an answer based on my experience as a Squadron and Vice Wing Commander. I have discharged numerous Airmen under Honorable, General and Other than Honorable. Moreover, I have worked with AF General Council on numerous discharges.
Honorable and Other than Honorable are pretty easy to distinguish. A General Discharge can be for medical reasons or for someone's performance that is satisfactory but is marked by a "considerable departure in duty performance and conduct expected of military members." A General Discharge for medical reasons could still be consider under honorable circumstances. A General Discharge for performance can be for Article 15 offenses or criminal offenses that don't reach the Other than Honorable level. Based on what the circumstances of the General Discharge was, they can be limited from some military benefits, and have to acknowledge in writing that there could be "substantial prejudice in civilian life" due to the General Discharge.
So, yes a person that receives a General Discharge under honorable conditions would be acceptable as someone with an "honorable discharge."
Based on this, the pilot qualifies under 61.160.
#6
It can't help. If nothing else, it stands out as not an honorable discharge, which will raise questions. All else being equal between to candidates, you could experience the "substantial prejudice in civilian life." Sucks but true.
#7
Most regionals will only care that you're breathing.
Majors will probably be very concerned about this...in the past I would say it would be an absolute no go...an honorable discharge would be taken for granted for an officer of any era, and for enlisted since 9/11.
You might have a chance eventually with the pilot shortage but I hope you have a very good story for that. Like the the SF dude who got kicked out of the army for beating up afghan officers who didn't listen when he told them to stop molesting young boys at his fire base.
Majors will probably be very concerned about this...in the past I would say it would be an absolute no go...an honorable discharge would be taken for granted for an officer of any era, and for enlisted since 9/11.
You might have a chance eventually with the pilot shortage but I hope you have a very good story for that. Like the the SF dude who got kicked out of the army for beating up afghan officers who didn't listen when he told them to stop molesting young boys at his fire base.
#9
Thanks for all the replies.
#10
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