FlyingBulldog

What would you log during training as a copilot in a crew aircraft? After the initial instrument qual Form 8, but not qualified yet for tac/formation. My last few instructors have had varying opinions, but I'm thinking copilot for the duty position, and dual received for type of flying time?

kme9418

You are qualified in the aircraft after your initial Instrument/Qualification Form 8. The aircraft requires two pilots to fly. I would log SIC in my personal logbook. Of course, your Air Force record will just show your crew qual: MP, CP, FP, whatever.

FlyingBulldog

Yeah, I guess I should go ahead and convert it and log as SIC. I had been using one of those blue AF logbooks, but it'll probably be easier to just log everything as I would civilian time from early on.


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TankerDriver

Depends on the airline you are applying to, but I think most consider "student time" SIC if you're with an IP. Solo time can obviously be logged as PIC by FAA rules. You are a "UP" during training before your Form 8 ride. Then you should be an FP until you become mission-ready.

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Tester130

You should have two log books going. One for your military logging and one for your civilian. This will allow you to get everything in order right from the start (chock to chock vs. wheels up to wheels down and other differences). I wish I had received that gouge 17 years ago when I started flying.

FlyingBulldog

I do have two logbooks, except that I have been keeping my military logbook exactly the way the time is logged on the 781. I would love to log the time in the civilian manner, but would a potential employer not question the differences between my logbook and the summary I assume I'd have to provide from the AF with my time that all came from the 781s? Plus, don't most airlines have a conversion to apply to military time or sorties? It would be nice to be able to log the extra ground time for EROs before or after a flight, though.

Tester130

If you are keeping two log books, one of them being a civilianized version of your military one, then I would log it following civilian rules (chock to chock). In an interview you can easily answer the question on why they are different (my entire career I maintained two log books and correctly logged my flight time for my civilian log book in accordance with FAR.....). This is a much more acceptable answer than those who did not get the gouge to maintain two books and go back and apply some form of conversion factor that is not in writing anyplace.
You are correct in that some airlines may apply a conversion factor if you did not maintain a separate log book with civilian flight times in it...but not all do. In my case, because I did not keep a separate log book, my civilian log book and military ones have identical flight times in them because I can't justify any conversion. The civilian one does account for PIC, SIC, and dual received as well as columns for other pertinent information.
Bottom line, IMO, if you are keeping a civilian log book and have been from the beginning, then you can log the civilian time. If not and you still have a long time left flying for the military then you could start now and make a note of when you did. If your military career has been short, then you could go back and correct the flights (you have a good idea of how long it took you to taxi in and out). I would not count on an airline utilizing a conversion factor to put you over the top if you are close on hours, but I also would not apply a conversion factor myself. Keep an honest log and you are good.

FlyingBulldog

Thanks for the tips. Most of my military flying is just from UPT so far, so pretty easy to remember the length of taxi. I was just very conservative when adding the taxi time. I'll just make a note in the logbook that the time is start to shutdown and not takeoff to landing to be honest and avoid confusion. It'll be great having a logbook with my actual hours instead of just "military hours". I'm still keeping one that tracks exactly what's on the 781s just to have my own record of it.


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