Part 135 Operation question
03-29-2009, 09:15 PM
#11
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Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by SiouxYeahYeah
Where are what type of 135 operation are you trying to establish. A lot of places out there already have 135 certs and you could add your airplanes on to current rather than creating your own. Which someone said already takes a long time.
SiouxYeahYeah I have been looking into partnering with someone who already has a part 135 but so far I haven't recieved and replies. I am looking into putting the aircraft under a part 135 just have to find the right one and in the right location. Still have to look into that and see how it will work out for us.
I appreciate all the replies. Keep em coming. Sometimes I wish it was like getting a driver's lic. This is like trying to interview for the FBI or CIA.
04-05-2009, 12:50 AM
#12
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 8
Hello,
I sure wish you lots of luck and patience with your endeavor. It took me 17 months to get a single pilot operating certificate. With the requirement of having an aircraft, insurance, etc. before even being able to start operations, I blead to death financially. The end result was that after three years of struggling to get established, I ended up having to sell my 206 amphib and return my OpsSpecs and certificate to the FAA.
But, don't let that discourage you.
You will also be require to address sections of Part 43 (Aircraft Maintenance), Part 61 (Pilot Certification & Training), and Part 91 (VFR/IFR operations, etc) in you Letter of Compliance and/or Operations Manual. The other big stumbling block is finding a reasonably priced aircraft that will past an FAA Conformity Check as well as meeting calendar time age (in addition to flight service hours) on the engine(s), props, and governors.
, yet?
You will need to have a current Drug Testing/Alcohol Abuse Program in place with the training manuals etc written and approved by the FAA. You will need to decide whether you are going to carry or not carry hazmat and have the appropriate training and hazmat manuals written and approved.
A word to the wise, try to find an established operator, that has a similiar operation to that which you want to start, and get friendly enough with them that they would let you review their operations manuals. That will help you get the phraseology that the FAA wants to see. Hopefully you will be assigned a certification team that will work very close with you. Mine didn't and everytime I called to get direction I recieved a bunch retoric about how undermanned and underfunded they were and that I should feel privileged that they would even talk to me.
Anyway, hope this helps!......Remember, wheel planes are only good for one water landing and no takeoffs!
I sure wish you lots of luck and patience with your endeavor. It took me 17 months to get a single pilot operating certificate. With the requirement of having an aircraft, insurance, etc. before even being able to start operations, I blead to death financially. The end result was that after three years of struggling to get established, I ended up having to sell my 206 amphib and return my OpsSpecs and certificate to the FAA.
But, don't let that discourage you.
You will also be require to address sections of Part 43 (Aircraft Maintenance), Part 61 (Pilot Certification & Training), and Part 91 (VFR/IFR operations, etc) in you Letter of Compliance and/or Operations Manual. The other big stumbling block is finding a reasonably priced aircraft that will past an FAA Conformity Check as well as meeting calendar time age (in addition to flight service hours) on the engine(s), props, and governors.
, yet?You will need to have a current Drug Testing/Alcohol Abuse Program in place with the training manuals etc written and approved by the FAA. You will need to decide whether you are going to carry or not carry hazmat and have the appropriate training and hazmat manuals written and approved.
A word to the wise, try to find an established operator, that has a similiar operation to that which you want to start, and get friendly enough with them that they would let you review their operations manuals. That will help you get the phraseology that the FAA wants to see. Hopefully you will be assigned a certification team that will work very close with you. Mine didn't and everytime I called to get direction I recieved a bunch retoric about how undermanned and underfunded they were and that I should feel privileged that they would even talk to me.
Anyway, hope this helps!......Remember, wheel planes are only good for one water landing and no takeoffs!
04-05-2009, 02:22 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by floatplanepilot
Hello,
I sure wish you lots of luck and patience with your endeavor. It took me 17 months to get a single pilot operating certificate. With the requirement of having an aircraft, insurance, etc. before even being able to start operations, I blead to death financially. The end result was that after three years of struggling to get established, I ended up having to sell my 206 amphib and return my OpsSpecs and certificate to the FAA.
But, don't let that discourage you.
You will also be require to address sections of Part 43 (Aircraft Maintenance), Part 61 (Pilot Certification & Training), and Part 91 (VFR/IFR operations, etc) in you Letter of Compliance and/or Operations Manual. The other big stumbling block is finding a reasonably priced aircraft that will past an FAA Conformity Check as well as meeting calendar time age (in addition to flight service hours) on the engine(s), props, and governors., yet?
You will need to have a current Drug Testing/Alcohol Abuse Program in place with the training manuals etc written and approved by the FAA. You will need to decide whether you are going to carry or not carry hazmat and have the appropriate training and hazmat manuals written and approved.
A word to the wise, try to find an established operator, that has a similiar operation to that which you want to start, and get friendly enough with them that they would let you review their operations manuals. That will help you get the phraseology that the FAA wants to see. Hopefully you will be assigned a certification team that will work very close with you. Mine didn't and everytime I called to get direction I recieved a bunch retoric about how undermanned and underfunded they were and that I should feel privileged that they would even talk to me.
Anyway, hope this helps!......Remember, wheel planes are only good for one water landing and no takeoffs!
I sure wish you lots of luck and patience with your endeavor. It took me 17 months to get a single pilot operating certificate. With the requirement of having an aircraft, insurance, etc. before even being able to start operations, I blead to death financially. The end result was that after three years of struggling to get established, I ended up having to sell my 206 amphib and return my OpsSpecs and certificate to the FAA.
But, don't let that discourage you.
You will also be require to address sections of Part 43 (Aircraft Maintenance), Part 61 (Pilot Certification & Training), and Part 91 (VFR/IFR operations, etc) in you Letter of Compliance and/or Operations Manual. The other big stumbling block is finding a reasonably priced aircraft that will past an FAA Conformity Check as well as meeting calendar time age (in addition to flight service hours) on the engine(s), props, and governors.
, yet?You will need to have a current Drug Testing/Alcohol Abuse Program in place with the training manuals etc written and approved by the FAA. You will need to decide whether you are going to carry or not carry hazmat and have the appropriate training and hazmat manuals written and approved.
A word to the wise, try to find an established operator, that has a similiar operation to that which you want to start, and get friendly enough with them that they would let you review their operations manuals. That will help you get the phraseology that the FAA wants to see. Hopefully you will be assigned a certification team that will work very close with you. Mine didn't and everytime I called to get direction I recieved a bunch retoric about how undermanned and underfunded they were and that I should feel privileged that they would even talk to me.
Anyway, hope this helps!......Remember, wheel planes are only good for one water landing and no takeoffs!
I really appreciate all the info you just passed along with me. Actually you provided a bit more info that wasnt mentioned before and that I haven't come across yet.
SO far I have made many contacts to buy certificates from sellers and that would be the fastest and easiest way to get in the market. Currently working on the Ops manual and specs, training requirements, insurance, etc. I am having headaches as I am sure everyone else did and I am learning so much I wonder if my brain will retain it all. I have a few friends who are forloughed or have been let go that I plan to bring into this. They are very high time most in excess of 4000 TT.
My main concern was the clientelle and making a profit in the market. I really didn't realize how many friends I had with major contacts however and now I have a potential market integrating my part 135 into there businesses.
I heard alot about spending huge amounts of money on aircrafts. I have a team that specializes in that and will find me the best possible aircraft with low time as well. My investors have the money and are behind me all the way. It just to get the ball rolling.
You mentioned the aircraft has to meet calender time age as well as flight service hours on engine, props and governors. Could you shed some more light on that for me. I think I know what you're talking about but just to be sure.
Love your signiture quote by the way.
04-05-2009, 11:35 PM
#14
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 8
Hey cpatterson19,
Glad the info was helpful. Yep, I had more headaches during the FAA certification process than I have ever had before or since. Purchasing an existing LLC/Corporation certificate holder is by far the easiest way to go(but costly), be careful, make sure that the business ops manuals and opsspecs are all up to date and that the opsspecs allow the type of operations that you want to provide. Of course, the opsspecs can be taylored to meet your requirements and thats where a good POI can help. What I'm trying to get at is that you could find that the ops manual and opsspecs might require extensive re-writing and that could be a lengthy process during which time you will not be allowed to operate on the certificate. An aquaintance that has a large helo operation bought a fixed wing operation that had a PC12, well, it ended up costing him $78k a month for 13 months while the plane sat in the hangar as the paper was re-written to approved FAA standards. It was a financial nightmare come true.
As to the calendar times (not to be confused with TBO times) required in Part 135 operations; for piston powered aircraft, the engine(s) must have been installed new or had a major overhaul within the previous 12 years and be within manufactors TBO time(s).
Say you have found a single engine 1980 Whizbang that has 2000 actt, 400 smohe, 400 spoh for only $80K. Sounds good ,huh? Well, the problems start when research shows the engine & prop/gov was overhauled in 1995, 14 yrs ago, now 2 yrs past engine calendar time and 7-9 yrs past prop calendar time, even though they are within manufactors TBO times. The engine will need to have a major overhaul or a new engine installed, so there goes $24-40K and another $3.5K for the prop/gov.
Now the props, if a McCauley; Macs have to be overhauled every five years or 1700 hrs whichever comes first, same with the governors. Hartzell props/govs are required to be overhauled every 7 yrs or 2000 hrs, whichever comes first.
As I mentioned this is for piston powered aircraft. There are Part 135 in service calendar times times for turboprop & jet engines too. You'll need to consult a PMI on these points.
Hope this helps as well!......Remember, wheel planes are only good for one water landing and no takeoffs!
Glad the info was helpful. Yep, I had more headaches during the FAA certification process than I have ever had before or since. Purchasing an existing LLC/Corporation certificate holder is by far the easiest way to go(but costly), be careful, make sure that the business ops manuals and opsspecs are all up to date and that the opsspecs allow the type of operations that you want to provide. Of course, the opsspecs can be taylored to meet your requirements and thats where a good POI can help. What I'm trying to get at is that you could find that the ops manual and opsspecs might require extensive re-writing and that could be a lengthy process during which time you will not be allowed to operate on the certificate. An aquaintance that has a large helo operation bought a fixed wing operation that had a PC12, well, it ended up costing him $78k a month for 13 months while the plane sat in the hangar as the paper was re-written to approved FAA standards. It was a financial nightmare come true.
As to the calendar times (not to be confused with TBO times) required in Part 135 operations; for piston powered aircraft, the engine(s) must have been installed new or had a major overhaul within the previous 12 years and be within manufactors TBO time(s).
Say you have found a single engine 1980 Whizbang that has 2000 actt, 400 smohe, 400 spoh for only $80K. Sounds good ,huh? Well, the problems start when research shows the engine & prop/gov was overhauled in 1995, 14 yrs ago, now 2 yrs past engine calendar time and 7-9 yrs past prop calendar time, even though they are within manufactors TBO times. The engine will need to have a major overhaul or a new engine installed, so there goes $24-40K and another $3.5K for the prop/gov.
Now the props, if a McCauley; Macs have to be overhauled every five years or 1700 hrs whichever comes first, same with the governors. Hartzell props/govs are required to be overhauled every 7 yrs or 2000 hrs, whichever comes first.
As I mentioned this is for piston powered aircraft. There are Part 135 in service calendar times times for turboprop & jet engines too. You'll need to consult a PMI on these points.
Hope this helps as well!......Remember, wheel planes are only good for one water landing and no takeoffs!
04-06-2009, 01:54 AM
#15
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by SiouxYeahYeah
Where are what type of 135 operation are you trying to establish. A lot of places out there already have 135 certs and you could add your airplanes on to current rather than creating your own. Which someone said already takes a long time.
We are looking at purchasing a certificate and filling the positions on the certificate as well as adding our airplanes to it. Still looking at the legal ramifications for that.
My main concern is to have everything up and running efficiently and according to FAA guidelines.
04-07-2009, 09:52 AM
#17
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by cpatterson19
Well I was looking at a basic 1 aircraft single pilot ops but with my the contract opportunity I am negotiating there may be need for a larger operation. will be based in MSP and mainly charter and no cargo at all.
We are looking at purchasing a certificate and filling the positions on the certificate as well as adding our airplanes to it. Still looking at the legal ramifications for that.
My main concern is to have everything up and running efficiently and according to FAA guidelines.
We are looking at purchasing a certificate and filling the positions on the certificate as well as adding our airplanes to it. Still looking at the legal ramifications for that.
My main concern is to have everything up and running efficiently and according to FAA guidelines.
04-07-2009, 09:55 AM
#18
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: C172 Right Side
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by cpatterson19
Well I was looking at a basic 1 aircraft single pilot ops but with my the contract opportunity I am negotiating there may be need for a larger operation. will be based in MSP and mainly charter and no cargo at all.
We are looking at purchasing a certificate and filling the positions on the certificate as well as adding our airplanes to it. Still looking at the legal ramifications for that.
My main concern is to have everything up and running efficiently and according to FAA guidelines.
We are looking at purchasing a certificate and filling the positions on the certificate as well as adding our airplanes to it. Still looking at the legal ramifications for that.
My main concern is to have everything up and running efficiently and according to FAA guidelines.
04-08-2009, 05:40 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: On top.
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by deskbound
Cherry Air, a cargo charter outfit operating 20-series Lears and Falcon 20s recently filed for bankruptcy. Rumor is the certificate is for sale, and if it's true, you might get a good deal. Kenny Donaldson, President (972) 248-1707.
Everything is for sale, even my soul, but I seriously doubt they are selling it for a reasonable price.
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