MercuryBirdman

Along these lines, what if a pilot was hired to fly a plane by himself or with another crewmember that had video equipment onboard to survey the land? Do pipeline patrol pilots need to have a commercial license? Or can they be just private? I'm wondering legally not realistically. I know that most of these companies require a commerical, but is it legally required?

Flying Ninja

Are you getting paid money or compensated somehow? If so, the answer is you need a commercial certificate. Even with a commercial certificate you are limited to what you can do outside of working for a commercial operator.

Twin Wasp

That's when you need a commercial certificate.

web500sjc

there are ways that a private pilot may be compensated, more than the pro rata share of the flight (they may even fly for compensation or hire)- the full rules are in 61.113

one concerns if the flying is Incedental to the business at hand- i.e. the business is not flying, but flying helps the business. so a cattle rancher could fly to survey his heard, or a real estate agent may look over a piece of land from the air.

61.113
(b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:

(1) The flight is only incidental to that business or employment; and

(2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire.


The most blatant of these exceptions is in regards to airplane salespersons.

61.113
(f) A private pilot who is an aircraft salesman and who has at least 200 hours of logged flight time may demonstrate an aircraft in flight to a prospective buyer.

The flight itself is incidental to the business of selling an airplane, like the test drive is incidental to buying a car. no transportation is made, only demonstration of the airplane.

MercuryBirdman

I contacted the local FSDO and they said to contact the Office of Chief Counsel. There are situations where a private can be compensated. It's just that the average company requires a commercial license for insurance purposes.

Twin Wasp

That's a smart FSDO. Yes there are cases where a private pilot can be compensated for flying a plane. The test is, are they being paid to fly or is the flying incidental to their job? A traveling salesman can be paid to fly because he's paid to travel between A and B. How he does it doesn't matter. It would be hard to argue a company would pay to have someone walk the pipeline right of way. They are hired to fly, therefore a commercial certificate is required.

MercuryBirdman

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for your input.

CFI Guy

You cannot receive compensation as a private pilot per the regs except for a couple exceptions. If you have over 200hrs you can be paid to demonstrate aircraft as a salesperson. You can also participate in a charitable cause and donate the money you receive if you have over 500hrs of flight time. You can be reimbursed for search and rescue operations.

You can also be reimbursed for travel expenses as long as it's incidental to the business. This is a very grey area. Maybe you are a traveling salesman whose company gives you so much money per month for car expenses. You have an out of town meeting and you decide to fly instead of drive. Instead of spending your allowance on gas for your car, you put it in your plane. This is incidental. If an "aerial photography" company hires you it's a little hard to argue that flying is incidental because it's a requirement by the nature of the business.

What you could legally do is if this person needing a flight to take photos is split the costs. Might be a good way to build time towards your commercial rating for half the price.

As a commercial pilot you can get PAID for your services but you cannot "hold out" (either by advertising or being known by reputation or word-of-mouth) to the general public. Exceptions are flight instruction. I can provide an airplane and advertise my services. I can also do aerial photography, crop dusting, and aerial tours within 25SM of the airport with a letter from FAA.

I used to work at a flight school and the owner had a twin cessna. He didn't have a 135 certificate but was "known" to take people to places for money. Every once in a while I would get phone calls at the school from people wanting to charter a plane. I'm fairly certain they were just fishing to see if we would bite. One time I got a call and I suggested a few of the legitimate charter companies on the field. The guy told me his client wanted to "fly a prop plane" not a jet. That set off alarms in my head because no one in the general public wants to charter a piston aircraft. Most don't even like turbo props. I told him no but I could give his client "instruction" to where he was going, sign his logbook and that's perfectly legal. Well legal but still grey. He declined. I'm fairly certain it was a set-up to bust us.

A friend's plane (parked) was clipped by another cessna taxiing down the ramp. The pilot for some reason didn't stop and proceeded to depart the airport. My friend called up the tower and told them what happened and radioed the aircraft to return for landing. The FSDO is located across the street and an inspector came over to question the other pilot. I heard they nailed him for being careless and reckless (taking off after you physically collided with another airplane and didn't even stop to check for damage???). There were 2 passengers on board the aircraft. Turns out they were paying passengers for this private pilot's "aerial tour" company.

My point is don't take the risk. You could probably get away with it. But maybe it's your unlucky day and your tire blows out and you run off the runway. Next thing you know your "passenger" is getting questioned about your relationship by a FAA inspector who starts out by saying if you lie to me it's s felony and a federal offense.

TheStranger

My understanding:

With a commercial pilot certificate you can legally conduct photography flights for hire, but you may not "hold out" (advertise) this service. You do not need a commercial operator certificate for this, however, you will need to participate in an FAA approved drug program.

Twin Wasp

No. Were you going to fly to a certain place and circle for half an hour if the camera person didn't show up. Even if you pay all the costs the FAA will say you got hours toward your commercial and that's compensation which requires a commercial pilot certificate.