Pacific Wings, Corporate
08-20-2014, 06:53 PM
#11
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Joined APC: May 2011
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 949
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
...they offered $10/load or free skydiving lessons (this was in '89...
08-20-2014, 07:49 PM
#12
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
OK -we must have widely different ideas of proficient Tpinks.
If you have 356 total hours with AT LEAST 100 of those being in the C-206, then that leaves 256 to divide by the remaining 13 types of aircraft that you claim proficiency in - - - making that an average 19.6 hrs in each type,
which we know is no accurante due to the number of training hours that you must have in some of the more common type of trainers.I had 20+ years of flying high performance trainers/fighters and I wouldn't say I was **proficient** in my current King Air until I had at least 500 hrs in it.
08-21-2014, 02:54 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Champeen07
Geez, give the kid a break. Every one of us who had what we thought was some unique experience when we had less than 500 hours was all about that. With time and experience he will learn that he didnt know 10% of what he thinks, but that is part of the process. I commend his confidence. Good pilots are all confident in their abilities. Keep working at it kid and eventually you will land a gig with an attitude like yours. Hell Id give him a shot if I had anything.
People who think they are proficient try things in airplanes that they ought not try sometimes.
How about instead of feeding this fallacy, someone give the 'kid' a bit of what might be called 'aviation truth' and let him know that his attitude can actually be dangerous in aviation.
I see a person who think he is proficient in 350 hrs in 14 different aircraft being the person who think he knows everything there is to know about flying in a 1,000 hrs. Are you going to tell me that you disagree with the 'learning something new throughout your career' thought process Champeen07?
DirectTo -
Truth. I've made that statement before on these boards when listening to what drop zones were paying!
08-21-2014, 09:16 AM
#14
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 846
I have been around aviation all my life, but I am the first in my family to actually be a pilot or be involved in the industry.
When I was 12 years old, I took my first ride in a T-6 Texan, the pilot told me multiple times how shocked he was when I took over the controls and that he had never seen someone as young as me be so smooth. When I started flying towards my license, the same thing was said by my instructor. And I have even been complemented by my designated examiners during and after my checkrides.
I soloed in under five hours, I completed my Private training in 36hrs (pt 141). With the exception of my Instrument Training, I completed everything under mins and had to fly just to build time to meet requirements. Even in the case of my Tailwheel endorsement, I was ready for my sign off in ~5hrs but flew with the instructor until 10 to reach insurance Mins.
When I started flying jumpers, before I even got into a plane, they told me they would have me fly the 182 for a couple of weeks to get used to the type of flying. I flew the 182 checkout (already had time in 182's) and they put me on my first loads that night. Halfway through the next day they came up to me and said your fine in the 182, we are going put you in the 206 if you think you are ready for it and so I started flying it.
Am I Confident in my flying? Absolutely, if you are not confident in yourself, then you should not be flying, but at the same time I know I can still kill myself and others if I Screw up. I am highly critical of myself and I recognize when I should/could have performed better. I don't want to be hired and just set free at some company. I want to be trained in the aircraft as I know I have to be as part of the learning experience.
I also know that there are areas in my flying where I am not proficient in. Because of that, I stay away from those operations unless I have A) done a refresher on the areas or B) have someone else there with me who is more current than me.
My confidence comes from people who I have flown with as mentors/Instructors, not something I think up about myself. When you have multiple retired Air Force pilots and career airline pilots telling you good things about your flying, what do you want me to say? "Oh I wish you would hire me for my average to below average flying skills/knowledge."
Do I think I know everything? Absolutely not, I am continuously learning new things about flying and aviation in general. When I read for fun, it's about Aviation because maybe one day when the **** hits the fan, something I have read in the past will rear itself up and allow me to overcome the situation. If you were to ask someone what my interests are, everyone would say Aviation and nothing else because I surround myself in it. It is my passion and some would say my life revolves around it, which it probably does.
Here is an issue I have about people saying "Oh you only have X amount of hours. You don't have any experience or hardly know anything." Numbers do not mean anything, it's about the type of environment and the quality of the training/hours. If numbers are what determines experience and competence, then why did Asiana 214 crash? Considering there was over 22,000 hrs of experience at the controls and even more sitting behind them, yet they couldn't do a basic visual approach without stalling the aircraft.
As far as the aircraft I have flown goes, a lot of them built on top of one another so it's not like it's a huge leap from one aircraft to the next. example 172->182->206. I should have said 14 different frames, as it is only 10 different type certificates.
And you surely are not saying it should take someone 500hrs to become proficient in a single engine aircraft are you?
When I was 12 years old, I took my first ride in a T-6 Texan, the pilot told me multiple times how shocked he was when I took over the controls and that he had never seen someone as young as me be so smooth. When I started flying towards my license, the same thing was said by my instructor. And I have even been complemented by my designated examiners during and after my checkrides.
I soloed in under five hours, I completed my Private training in 36hrs (pt 141). With the exception of my Instrument Training, I completed everything under mins and had to fly just to build time to meet requirements. Even in the case of my Tailwheel endorsement, I was ready for my sign off in ~5hrs but flew with the instructor until 10 to reach insurance Mins.
When I started flying jumpers, before I even got into a plane, they told me they would have me fly the 182 for a couple of weeks to get used to the type of flying. I flew the 182 checkout (already had time in 182's) and they put me on my first loads that night. Halfway through the next day they came up to me and said your fine in the 182, we are going put you in the 206 if you think you are ready for it and so I started flying it.
Am I Confident in my flying? Absolutely, if you are not confident in yourself, then you should not be flying, but at the same time I know I can still kill myself and others if I Screw up. I am highly critical of myself and I recognize when I should/could have performed better. I don't want to be hired and just set free at some company. I want to be trained in the aircraft as I know I have to be as part of the learning experience.
I also know that there are areas in my flying where I am not proficient in. Because of that, I stay away from those operations unless I have A) done a refresher on the areas or B) have someone else there with me who is more current than me.
My confidence comes from people who I have flown with as mentors/Instructors, not something I think up about myself. When you have multiple retired Air Force pilots and career airline pilots telling you good things about your flying, what do you want me to say? "Oh I wish you would hire me for my average to below average flying skills/knowledge."
Do I think I know everything? Absolutely not, I am continuously learning new things about flying and aviation in general. When I read for fun, it's about Aviation because maybe one day when the **** hits the fan, something I have read in the past will rear itself up and allow me to overcome the situation. If you were to ask someone what my interests are, everyone would say Aviation and nothing else because I surround myself in it. It is my passion and some would say my life revolves around it, which it probably does.
Here is an issue I have about people saying "Oh you only have X amount of hours. You don't have any experience or hardly know anything." Numbers do not mean anything, it's about the type of environment and the quality of the training/hours. If numbers are what determines experience and competence, then why did Asiana 214 crash? Considering there was over 22,000 hrs of experience at the controls and even more sitting behind them, yet they couldn't do a basic visual approach without stalling the aircraft.
As far as the aircraft I have flown goes, a lot of them built on top of one another so it's not like it's a huge leap from one aircraft to the next. example 172->182->206. I should have said 14 different frames, as it is only 10 different type certificates.
And you surely are not saying it should take someone 500hrs to become proficient in a single engine aircraft are you?
08-21-2014, 09:52 AM
#15
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Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 294
I admire your moxie kid. But 359 hrs does not make one a aviator. What you cite as accolades by examiners etc. are familiar stories we as professionals have had experience with.
You have a good future and are in a good place. I suggest not getting invected by a over inflated ego. Nothing turns off a fellow aviator faster.
You have a good future and are in a good place. I suggest not getting invected by a over inflated ego. Nothing turns off a fellow aviator faster.
08-21-2014, 02:34 PM
#16
Custom User Title
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,269
TPink,
You and I sound pretty similar. I'm only 100 hours further along than you and have logged time in about as many types of aircraft as you. I've only ever wanted to be a pilot for as long as I can remember, and received (still do) the same complimentary remarks from folks more experienced than I about my stick and rudder ability (due I'm sure almost entirely to merely exceeding their expectations for a low-time pilot, not because I'm a gifted second coming of Bob Hoover, which I'm not).
I just began my first flying job three months ago and due almost entirely to knowing the right people and being in the right place at the right time, by the time I reach standard ATP mins in approximately 12-16 months from now, I'll have nearly 1200 hours of multi-turbine PIC time out of my 1500 hours total time. I'll be applying to the slave driving regionals with nearly 1800hrs of multi-turbine PIC when I finish my commitment.
There are two reasons I believe for my good fortune that I will share with you that might help you along your journey.
1) Be Humble, above all else. As others have commented, no matter how good you might be, or how good you more than likely think you are, no one, especially in aviation, appreciates inflated egos. Every person I've spoken with who is farther along than I am, and especially if they have any capacity in pilot hiring, the one common denominator I hear from them is how the really look for guys with good experience and who are also humble. That word 'humble' is specifically used by all of them. Spending so much effort trying to justify to people on an internet forum your limited flight experience will get you no where. You won't convince the guys on here with 10's of thousands of hours doing the most incredible things in airplanes around the world. They've been there, done that, and got the t-shirt, and thus have the perspective the comes with wisdom based on experience to know that a young and enthusiastic 359 hour pilot is just that...an enthusiastic 359 hour pilot.
One of the pilots at my employer has more time in airplanes, doing so many different things with airplanes, that it truly astounds me how he has so much knowledge about flying in general, and the aircraft types in the fleet at this company. I look forward to being around him because his thousands and thousands of hours of experience are nothing that my 'talent' and enthusiasm for aviation can match. I always learn something from him (and everyone else).
Accept that you are off to a good start, but accept that at this point, you really don't know what you don't know, and there is a long way to go. It's this mindset that I keep for myself.
2) With regards to getting a job, so much of it is networking. I've been an airline employee for nearly 8 years in a non-pilot capacity, but it wasn't time wasted. I got to know many pilots and slowly built and developed relationships in many places that are paying off now (how else did I get this incredible first job?). The more you can get around the people who are where you want to be, and the more you can show yourself as a good humble guy, the less off-the-street competition you'll have to face.
Good Luck.
You and I sound pretty similar. I'm only 100 hours further along than you and have logged time in about as many types of aircraft as you. I've only ever wanted to be a pilot for as long as I can remember, and received (still do) the same complimentary remarks from folks more experienced than I about my stick and rudder ability (due I'm sure almost entirely to merely exceeding their expectations for a low-time pilot, not because I'm a gifted second coming of Bob Hoover, which I'm not).
I just began my first flying job three months ago and due almost entirely to knowing the right people and being in the right place at the right time, by the time I reach standard ATP mins in approximately 12-16 months from now, I'll have nearly 1200 hours of multi-turbine PIC time out of my 1500 hours total time. I'll be applying to the slave driving regionals with nearly 1800hrs of multi-turbine PIC when I finish my commitment.
There are two reasons I believe for my good fortune that I will share with you that might help you along your journey.
1) Be Humble, above all else. As others have commented, no matter how good you might be, or how good you more than likely think you are, no one, especially in aviation, appreciates inflated egos. Every person I've spoken with who is farther along than I am, and especially if they have any capacity in pilot hiring, the one common denominator I hear from them is how the really look for guys with good experience and who are also humble. That word 'humble' is specifically used by all of them. Spending so much effort trying to justify to people on an internet forum your limited flight experience will get you no where. You won't convince the guys on here with 10's of thousands of hours doing the most incredible things in airplanes around the world. They've been there, done that, and got the t-shirt, and thus have the perspective the comes with wisdom based on experience to know that a young and enthusiastic 359 hour pilot is just that...an enthusiastic 359 hour pilot.
One of the pilots at my employer has more time in airplanes, doing so many different things with airplanes, that it truly astounds me how he has so much knowledge about flying in general, and the aircraft types in the fleet at this company. I look forward to being around him because his thousands and thousands of hours of experience are nothing that my 'talent' and enthusiasm for aviation can match. I always learn something from him (and everyone else).
Accept that you are off to a good start, but accept that at this point, you really don't know what you don't know, and there is a long way to go. It's this mindset that I keep for myself.
2) With regards to getting a job, so much of it is networking. I've been an airline employee for nearly 8 years in a non-pilot capacity, but it wasn't time wasted. I got to know many pilots and slowly built and developed relationships in many places that are paying off now (how else did I get this incredible first job?). The more you can get around the people who are where you want to be, and the more you can show yourself as a good humble guy, the less off-the-street competition you'll have to face.
Good Luck.
08-21-2014, 08:29 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Here is an issue I have about people saying "Oh you only have X amount of hours. You don't have any experience or hardly know anything." Numbers do not mean anything,
I soloed in under five hours,
I completed my Private training in 36hrs (pt 141).
With the exception of my Instrument Training, I completed everything under mins
and had to fly just to build time to meet requirements.
Even in the case of my Tailwheel endorsement, I was ready for my sign off in ~5hrs
but flew with the instructor until 10 to reach insurance Mins.
When I was 12 years old, I took my first ride in a T-6 Texan, the pilot told me multiple times how shocked he was when I took over the controls and that he had never seen someone as young as me be so smooth.
Yes - I'm making fun of your comment. I'm trying to do it with a smile on my face, but seriously......
Am I Confident in my flying? Absolutely, if you are not confident in yourself, then you should not be flying, but at the same time I know I can still kill myself and others if I Screw up. I am highly critical of myself and I recognize when I should/could have performed better. I don't want to be hired and just set free at some company. I want to be trained in the aircraft as I know I have to be as part of the learning experience.
Great attitude and knowing limits and working towards expanding them are key.
My confidence comes from people who I have flown with as mentors/Instructors, not something I think up about myself. When you have multiple retired Air Force pilots and career airline pilots telling you good things about your flying, what do you want me to say? "Oh I wish you would hire me for my average to below average flying skills/knowledge."
OK -we must have widely different ideas of proficient Tpinks.
And you surely are not saying it should take someone 500hrs to become proficient in a single engine aircraft are you?
I was **proficient** in my current King Air until I had at least 500 hrs in it.
) exactly for the reason that I didn't think I knew enough at 250+ hours to instruct anyone. I knew that was the *usual* route for a civilian pilot to progress but I felt like I really need some "real world experience".Now that I have many years in this aviation world and have done quite a few different things - to include a decade of aviation safety experience and instruction - some of the things that you said - and how you said them - struck a dangerous chord with me and I pointed some of them out to you as a little nudge of a wake up call. Personally I think some of the things you said, and the attitude that came along with them could actually be dangerous, if given the right circumstances. Your rebuttal was to 'toot your own horn' quite loudly with a history of your first 300 hrs of flight training and the numerous accolades heaped upon you by all who's presence you have graced
I'm saying - - slow down a little. Take the time to absorb what you are being exposed too. You have a long future ahead of you in aviation if you decide to stick it out through the ups and downs. Many of us on APC have watched AZFlyer 'grow up' through the ranks somewhat and have enjoyed his journey. His words of advice ring true.
Enjoy the ride.
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