shouldnt matter what alpa thinks about picking up open time....when your brothers are on the street, do not pick it up. All you are doing is showing the company that even though they may be understaffed at some point....the pilot group will cover their butts. But this only works when everyone as a whole doesn't pick it up, then forcing the companies hand (using all of its reserves for example) thus making the company recall whatever they think is necessary to cover the shortage.
xjcaptain, this entire post is NOT aimed at your comment, just the part about ALPA.
For any first timers at the company who read this, it is the unwritten rule not to pick up open time when you have fellow pilots on the street. However I realize in today's day and age, with all the Generation ME types floating around, I would be shocked if XJ pilots actually did totally refuse to pick up open time.
__________________
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to Zero
How many guys are furloughed nationwide directly due to the age 65 fiasco? ALPA polled the "membership", didn't like the result, polled them again, still didn't like it so they did what they wanted anyway. Then claimed they "had to" switch to the "winning" side because they were going to lose.....?
Set's a great example when negotiating with the company. If it's going to be a hard fight, just hold tight because ALPA will fold. Trust me the company takes note of these internal battles.
As long as the age 60+ are collecting their paycheck guilt-free at the detriment of all the furloughs, a couple hours either way is just meaningless. ALPA was short on funds, and it made better sense for them to collect dues for another 5 years at the highest rates rather than from the bottom 5 year pilots that would have replaced them. Might help in the short term, but then the cycle will continue. ALPA made a financial decision that was in THEIR best interest, as should any other pilot.
For any first timers at the company who read this, it is the unwritten rule not to pick up open time when you have fellow pilots on the street. However I realize in today's day and age, with all the Generation ME types floating around, I would be shocked if XJ pilots actually did totally refuse to pick up open time.
Speaking for those of us on the furlough list, we appreciate the support of our brothers and sisters who take a hit for the team and refuse to pick up open time.
Speaking for those of us on the furlough list, we appreciate the support of our brothers and sisters who take a hit for the team and refuse to pick up open time.
I have never understood people picking up open time when we have guys on the street. It's all about the ME mentality, that starts at the top of ALPA and goes to the bottom. Financially it made sense for ALPA to push age 65, financially a guy working until 65 will pay more in dues, second age 65 protects the top dogs at ALPA 5 more years of pay. Picking up open time when guys are on the street is a sign to the other pilots in your individual pilot group that you really don't care about there situation it's all about what best works for me. I don't understand why ALPA doesn't flat out ban the practice. I know there arguement is the fear of law suits and the what not blah, blah, blah. If nobody picked up open time it would show a unified pilot group that we do care about each other no matter what your seniority is. I am in favor of making a public list of pilots that pick up open time so the next time you fly with a furloughed guy he or she can ask you about what you did with the money while he or she was on the street. The longer I am in ALPA the more I see how weak the leadership is. Nobody want to rock the boat in fear of losing there position, other unions I am sure laugh at us on how uninified we really are. In closing I just want to say DON'T PICK UP OPEN TIME!!!!
I certainly feel bad for those who are gong be be furloughed, maybe for a 2nd or 3rd time, and I know ALPA discourages people from picking up open time with people on furlough. However, I certainly see a double standard in that they voted in age 65 which cost each and every one of us countless thousands of dollars, and years of career progression. They weren't too concerned about the will of the membership in that case, and I feel it hypocritical of them to encourage people not to pick up time....even if it isn't an official policy. I think they unfortunately set the standard that it's all about #1. This is a job. I am here for only 1 reason, and that is to support my family, and if that means picking up a trip so be it.
I have a hard time believing someone's family is going to starve if they don't work overtime. Not that I really care but its all about karma.
Just to play devils advocate here, but we will probably be understaffed after the furloughs and everyone will be working so much that picking up opentime wont even be a possibility. Wont furloughed pilots be making more at Home Depot or McDonalds? A lot of people on this board cry about regional wages and how you can make more doing something else. I think the company might be doing you a financial favor.
I have never understood people picking up open time when we have guys on the street. It's all about the ME mentality, that starts at the top of ALPA and goes to the bottom. Financially it made sense for ALPA to push age 65, financially a guy working until 65 will pay more in dues, second age 65 protects the top dogs at ALPA 5 more years of pay. Picking up open time when guys are on the street is a sign to the other pilots in your individual pilot group that you really don't care about there situation it's all about what best works for me. I don't understand why ALPA doesn't flat out ban the practice. I know there arguement is the fear of law suits and the what not blah, blah, blah. If nobody picked up open time it would show a unified pilot group that we do care about each other no matter what your seniority is. I am in favor of making a public list of pilots that pick up open time so the next time you fly with a furloughed guy he or she can ask you about what you did with the money while he or she was on the street. The longer I am in ALPA the more I see how weak the leadership is. Nobody want to rock the boat in fear of losing there position, other unions I am sure laugh at us on how uninified we really are. In closing I just want to say DON'T PICK UP OPEN TIME!!!!
I plan on picking up as much as open time as I can. I need it. If you don't, then you don't.
I certainly feel bad for those who are gong be be furloughed, maybe for a 2nd or 3rd time, and I know ALPA discourages people from picking up open time with people on furlough. However, I certainly see a double standard in that they voted in age 65 which cost each and every one of us countless thousands of dollars, and years of career progression. They weren't too concerned about the will of the membership in that case, and I feel it hypocritical of them to encourage people not to pick up time....even if it isn't an official policy. I think they unfortunately set the standard that it's all about #1. This is a job. I am here for only 1 reason, and that is to support my family, and if that means picking up a trip so be it.
Amen!
Quote:
I have never understood people picking up open time when we have guys on the street. It's all about the ME mentality, that starts at the top of ALPA and goes to the bottom. Financially it made sense for ALPA to push age 65, financially a guy working until 65 will pay more in dues, second age 65 protects the top dogs at ALPA 5 more years of pay. Picking up open time when guys are on the street is a sign to the other pilots in your individual pilot group that you really don't care about there situation it's all about what best works for me. I don't understand why ALPA doesn't flat out ban the practice. I know there arguement is the fear of law suits and the what not blah, blah, blah. If nobody picked up open time it would show a unified pilot group that we do care about each other no matter what your seniority is. I am in favor of making a public list of pilots that pick up open time so the next time you fly with a furloughed guy he or she can ask you about what you did with the money while he or she was on the street. The longer I am in ALPA the more I see how weak the leadership is. Nobody want to rock the boat in fear of losing there position, other unions I am sure laugh at us on how uninified we really are. In closing I just want to say DON'T PICK UP OPEN TIME!!!!
Your whole post contradicts itself. Lets look at what has happened in the last 20 years. B payscale, regionals getting Jet flying(and bigger and bigger jets), and now age 65. Sure they get 5 more years from those guys, but if those guys left they would get the same $ from some one else taking their spot. When Prater mails a check to my house or stays in some flea bag Inn while traveling just maybe I could see not picking up open time. If I fly with a furloughed FO what would I tell them????I'll tell them I payed my mortgage and saved it for a rainy day when its my turn in front of the boot.Don't lump people who are trying to pay bills with scabs. If you have that mentality I'm sure you could call 1-800-Hand-Saw and find a union more to your taste. If the company didn't over hire we wouldn't have as many to furlough in the first place. A bunch of people shouldn't have been here or been CA's to begin with. That is not the pilot groups fault.
__________________
"Hey, Man there is a beverage here."
Similar Threads
Linear Mode
