I cannot help myself, but here goes, as I am not ready to drink the koolaid yet...
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickwiggler
Comair pilots fight a long battle but management won't budge. They are released by the NMB and go into 30 day cooling off period. Which is really when contracts get hashed out. Management still wouldn't budge.
Seems like neither side would budge...
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickwiggler
The Comair pilots went on strike. They refused to let the race to the bottom go through their airlines. Their actions benefitted ALL of US!! ASA, Eagle, Republic, and yes, even Skywest....Meanwhile, what did you do to help the comair pilots? Nothing! ALPA members kicked in extra dues to help support the Comair pilots while they were out on a strike that made all of our lives better.
Stick
Yep. I agree, made the lives of ASA, Eagle, Republic and Skywest better. All those carriers have been growing for the last 6 years, bidding on business and winning it where Comair could not because of the higher costs they had. Heck, Skywest and ASA and Republic even got some of Comair's flying. So Comair, at the time of that contract the largest regional, shrinks. Less Captains, slower upgrades. In the end, they give it all back in bankruptcy. Big Win.
But hey, if being the pilot is the team sport you guys want it to be, why get ALPA to take a stand and not underbid other carriers for business? Seems to me, being a pilot is not the team sport some would like it to be. In the end, you have to make decisions based on what is good for ME AND MY FAMILY. OK, flame away.
This vote isn't "Are you happy at SkyWest or not". Its ALPA vs. SAPA
I will preface by saying that I have only been at SKW 5 months but in that time my opinion has changed and I now support the ALPA drive.
I think ALPA is like any orgnization in its conquest for more power and money, however as we have all seen by Mesa's union, TSA's Union, etc. ALPA national has little power over our MECs and basically individual unions. If we want an upbeat union that has good relationship with management, we can create that.
It ain't broke, so don't fix it?
SAPA is very broken which means we don't have representation. The entire orgnization is in bed with management, I don't think that is disputable. They are paid by management and can be fired for not agreeing with management's interests, a slight conflict of interest don't you think?!
For those SKW pilots who haven't heard of what happened to our last SAPA president, Mark Nolin, I advise you find out before you cast your vote against ALPA. I would be happy to fill you in, but all you really need to do is ask around (outside of the training center).
Things seem great now, but stop and consider that we haven't had a pay raise in more than 5 years (the last raise was a joke). Housing prices have more than doubled, gas has tripled as have many other essentials, yet our salaries have not changed. We have a relatively unified pilot group. We may not agree on the type of representation we want, but most of us had enough pride to hold out for SKW instead of going to/sticking with 500 TT regionals. With more powerful representation backing us, this pilot group could make real improvements to our current work rules and pay.
Whatever happens, we need to to stay unified. If ALPA doesn't pass, then we need to pay more attention to SAPA and hold them accountable for their lack of progress in the last few years.
ALPA is what we will make of it. Ultimately I believe that they won't be using us, we will be using them. We'll take advantage of the resources they have to offer and work on maintaining a good relationship with management. I urge first year FOs to do some research on ALPA and SAPA. ALPA may not be great, but SAPA has outlived its usefulness. This vote isn't "are you happy at SkyWest or not" its ALPA vs. SAPA. Most of us are happy, but we know we can improve things.
Yep. I agree, made the lives of ASA, Eagle, Republic and Skywest better. All those carriers have been growing for the last 6 years, bidding on business and winning it where Comair could not because of the higher costs they had. Heck, Skywest and ASA and Republic even got some of Comair's flying. So Comair, at the time of that contract the largest regional, shrinks. Less Captains, slower upgrades. In the end, they give it all back in bankruptcy. Big Win.
But hey, if being the pilot is the team sport you guys want it to be, why get ALPA to take a stand and not underbid other carriers for business? Seems to me, being a pilot is not the team sport some would like it to be. In the end, you have to make decisions based on what is good for ME AND MY FAMILY. OK, flame away.
And that right there is why things will never change in the regional industry. No one can raise the bar. Someone does, like Comair did, and what happens? Instead of following their lead and demanding a contract like Comair got, everyone undercuts them, accepts subpar pay just to get more flying because they are "getting their 1000PIC and going to a major." All this while companies rake in record profits and order many many multi-million dollar airplanes, while telling their pilots that they can't pay them any more because they will be "uncompetitive".
I don't know,,,,, My grandfather was a very smart and weathy man. He told me when I was a young boy,,, "If it aint broke, don't fix it." I know what he'd say if he were around to ask about this one.
SKWPilot1,
How long have you been in this industry? It doesn't sound like very long. It is likely impossible to have a successful career in aviation without a union. Its just the way it has been since long before you and I started flying. Who knows why? Chicken vs Egg thing.
But it really doesnt matter. I used to fly at Mesaba and although I planned on using them only as a stepping stone it was plainly evident a collective bargaining agreement was necessary for humane working conditions. Look what happened to most carriers after 9-11. They took all kinds of cuts. Don't think it won't happen to you just because you fly for Skywest. The only difference is it will happen imeadiately, without warning or the ability to fight.
The regional industry as a whole is overdue for an overhaul. As long as you have Unions and members willing to support them (VERY IMPORTANT) you guys have a fighting chance to work for a company that is in itself a career.
My mom always told me...if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything. While I rarely listen to that advice on this board...with SKW...I'm not saying anything
__________________
"Treat her like a lady and she'll take you home everytime..."
Everything that Skywest has right this instant is not because SAPA "won" it, or because management benevolently gave it to the pilot group. It is because management HAD TO for recruitment & retention purposes because some other ALPA carrier had fought and gained better, and the SKW workforce wanted what they had.
ALPA isn't perfect, and *especially* at a regional is only as effective as the pilot group is unified around elected leadership. Pilot apathy and complacency (which fast upgrades often create) are the biggest threats to pilots in this industry, even above corrupt MBAs and sympathetic bankruptcy judges.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it?" If you don't call a 1% raise to JET PILOTS ONLY broke, I don't know what is...
Wheres Rickair? time for the experience to chime in... If I remember correctly he will vote NO on alpa. I may have only spent 7 months at SKW, but it will be interesting to see some of the attitudes of more senior SKW pilots about this.
No what it means is ASA pilots who are based in ATL are better connected with those who work for Delta so they get selected to interview first. Don't be dumb enough to think SKW pilots aren't applying.
Delta may have only had two SKW guys in their last new hire class.
But, Southwest took 37 (Yah, THIRTY SEVEN) of our guys last month.
I think SkyWest pilots are doing fine (well, better than fine) in the hiring market. They keep doing it without ALPA.
Wheres Rickair? time for the experience to chime in... If I remember correctly he will vote NO on alpa. I may have only spent 7 months at SKW, but it will be interesting to see some of the attitudes of more senior SKW pilots about this.
I am currently undecided on SKW alpa. I guess I'll have to make up my mind soon...
My previous alpa experience was not good, and I have reservations about alpa's ability (or incentive) to properly and fairly represent all the diverse pilot groups under their roof. I'm also doubtful that they could bring a great deal of improvements to the current SKW package without a bitter labor battle fought by a very determined and PO'ed pilot group (which is not going to happen).
On the other hand our industry naturally lends itself to unions...maybe the addition of a huge regional like SKW would tip the balance toward labor across the regional industry. Basically I view the alpa issue as not something that will directly benefit me at SKW, but might benefit the industry as a whole, including SKW (and wherever I end up next).
There's also the possibility that Jerry could retire tomorrow and bring in JO to run the company (after the MAG BOD finally grows enough ballz to can his pathetic @ss ). A real contract might be nice in that eventuality.
Last edited by rickair7777 : 08-27-2007 at 07:50 PM.
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