DashGirl

Do you even understand why that kind of remark is completely ridiculous? You don't know anything about me do you? You have no idea what my situation is, why I choose to stay here etc..Furthermore your point is, really, pointless. What does my staying at this company have to do with any of this? Why do you and the other guy always want to turn this discussion into one about me? That makes no sense. It's just like the political ads for the presidential race running on TV right now. Your position is so weak that all you can do is attack your opponent vs making any statements about your position. Which neither of you have yet to do. Pick on me, rip into me, blast me, criticize my decision making regarding my current employment, blah blah blah... all for what exactly? What is your motive? To discredit me? To ridicule me? If so why? What did I do to you that was so horrible you need to come onto this forum and pick a fight with me every time I post? If you disagree with what I have to say then just disagree...Why make it hostile?

I know why...Because you have nothing of any value in agreement or opposing view to add. And what does that say about you? No one is impressed here nor is anyone intimidated by your broken record playing the "Go work somewhere else song". That seems to be your only argument. I'll admit this though, you play it well.

My personal circumstances are none of your business. And you'll notice I have never criticized one single person for being at PDT or staying here now have I. So why do that to me? You keep diverting the meat of the topic away from anything of any value. This is not about me, nor is it about you. It's about this pilot group.

I care about this pilot group. I like the people I work with and I like where I live. I have a vested interest in making this place better. Some of you guys don't seem to care about anything other than yourselves and playing message board "king of the hill."

The two of you are completely lost..I'm going to take my own advice...Welcome to my ignore list, say hello to PDTPILOT while you're in there...

Piedmonster

I've stayed out of the fray about this, until now. I'm not there anymore, so all I have are memories and the tales of my friends who are still there.

1st off, to DashGirl's points: Very True, especially about the personal attacks on this forum. I had to deal with it too. Anyone remember when someone on this board thought "I should have apologized to Jay Keen"?? Oh memories.

There is a fundamental problem at PDT. There is a complete lack of solidarity. Until people learn that the company (specifically PDT) is hostile toward you and respond accordingly, you get the slop they feed you and have no other choice in what you eat.

What DG is trying to tell potential recruits is simply the truth. If you're not willing to say that, you're in denial or desperate for someone under you so you're not clinging to the bottom. Also, in order for things to get better, the pilot/employee groups must force change. The employees need leverage to do this, and the best leverage is lack of staffing to operate the share of flying PDT does. If a newbie decides to come on board, so be it, it's with their eyes wide open, with clear expectations. Essentially the idea is to weed out the plethora of idiots who just would go there cause it's the 1st airline that called, knowing nothing about what they are getting into. This does not shut off the labor supply chain (of new pilots), but it keeps the stream flowing at a lower rate, forcing the "water" management to act more appropriately.

The company is not magnanimous, ready or willing to do a single thing to make your life better. In fact, wholly the opposite. Either way, get your head out of your (we all know where)...

frmrdashtrash

Guys, I'm sorry to say it but you have no leverage. The last time you had any leverage was in '07, and that went away quickly. Not to mention we weren't in Section 6 at the time.

The airline is flying an aging, dying fleet and there's no replacement on the horizon. The company isn't negotiating because the doors are closing one way or another, the only question is when. It will either close when the company is no longer financially viable from operating a small fleet or when the pilot group or FA's strike. I don't believe the pilot group WILL strike. The MEC is not well enough organized, and there are too many high seniority pilots who won't or can't leave and will take what they can get until the doors close (some of those guys have no choice).

DashGirl, you might as well stop trying to dissuade FNGs from starting at Piedmont. There will be no strike in which they have to make a decision. The only outcome to keeping the company purposely understaffed is for the current staff getting junior manned because the company isn't properly staffed. The company will take care of that for you. You want change? Make it happen. That change won't be within Piedmont however.

piper338

... Sooo where are we staying in ISP now?

DASH8AV8R

Holiday Inn right there at the airport. Across from the Diner.

Phuz

Where you stand depends on where you sit.

If I was a PDT captain i'd stay till they shut the doors or until I got hired at a major. Dash 8 PIC time has been good enough to get people hired at SWA, and SWA is good enough for most people. So in her defense, I'd stick where she's at too.

Making a lateral move to another regional only makes sense if you're a PDT FO and never going to upgrade. With airplanes dissapearing this year, I'd say that includes just about all of the current PDT FOs.

DashGirl

I'm not going to give up regardless of how hopeless it may appear. Though I agree with the sentiment of your post I refuse to surrender. I am hopeful that an AMR merger will give this pilot group a future and a better contract. Is that realistic? I really don't know. No one does. A merger could mean we all wind up on the street just as easily. But even if USA goes it alone and PDT continues on it's current course the day any of us give up is the day mgt wins. I may very well have to move on, we all might have to. But I'm going out with a fight!

I have always had a fondness for Amiliano Zapata's philosophy:

"Better to die on your feet then to live on your knees."

I'd rather see this place burn to the ground and have to go to the unemployment line then take an imposed contract or one with more concessions. Right now our biggest enemy is an internal one. It's the divisiveness. We have to combat that. We also need to reach out to the senior side of the C/a list and get them on board with the team for the big win, lol. Many of them would not walk out. They are too close to retirement and are terrified of losing their jobs. We have to talk to these guys. Reach out to them and help them realize that the reason they have the contract they have now is because guys in the past were willing to throw themselves under the bus the good of the whole pilot group. I've talked to several of these guys and though I can't say that I convinced any of them, I can say I got several "I never thought about it like that comments" out of them. We can get through to them so when you fly with these guys reach out to them respectfully. Give them a "junior" POV. Remind them that they were junior once with their whole careers ahead of them.

frmrdashtrash

This sounds familiar. I was in the same boat in late '06, early '07. Stay at Piedmont and wait out an upgrade at a non-bottom feeder, or go to RAH and fly the 170 since they were short on applicants with 3000+ hrs. I stayed at Piedmont, and it was one of the dumbest decisions I've ever made. I'd have been a captain within a few months of hire at RAH rather than the late '07 award I got at PDT. Had I bailed I'd have had a shot at SWA or DAL or insert major here rather than getting furloughed from a fractional with little hope for recall and no hope for upgrade IF they do recall.

Bottom line? No one has any morals or belief system in doing the right thing in this industry. If you're going to be one of the few upholding what you feel are high standards, and they may very well be high standards, you are going to be turning out the lights there and end up slinging gear for someone you gave IOE to at your last job. Take care of you. No one else will.

DashGirl

So, your answer to a very significant problem we have industry wide is to feed the problem and become a part of it? I just can't do that. If I, as you say, end up slinging gear for someone I gave IOE to then so be it. At least I didn't compromise my honor and I'll retire with a clear conscience. Not saying you won't either, but you and I have vastly different philosophies on life. I will never prioritize myself over the needs of the many. I dunno, maybe that's not only a Trekker thing to say but a woman thing to say too. But it's who I am fundamentally. And frankly the reason this world is such a mess is because people all too often put their own needs ahead of the "community" never realizing if the communal needs are met first, personal needs end up being met as a result and fulfilled ten times more then they would have been otherwise (Please don't to call me a communist, what I am talking about is simply a philosophy not socialism which I do not support as a political system.) I have personal experience with this and it really does work this way. But all that being said, having been at PDT for a while and in this industry for a really long time (started on the ramp at an FBO at 16) I can certainly understand your dismay. You quit the fight. It's understandable. I don't fault you for it. I hope you are at a better job and happy. I mean that sincerely.

You have been adult and respectful with your dissenting opinion and I think you for that.

frmrdashtrash

I didn't exactly quit the fight. More like forced out of it. I served my time in various union positions at PDT both appointed and elected. When the opportunity arose I did what I had to do for my family. A two leg commute into reserve CA pay and 10 days off per month with a baby on the way wasn't it.

When I got furloughed I didn't have enough turbine PIC to go anywhere worth being. We were the last group to furlough and most of the decent jobs were filled anyway. It was either get out of the industry or go back to commuting and trying to support a family on first year regional pay as my wife was also looking at the unemployment line.

Having been in your shoes, I urge you get out while you can. Many junior captains and FOs who ideals are / were similar to yours have been used up by that airline. It's all too easy finding yourself committed to righting the ship only to find yourself sitting on it at the bottom. By then you're too late to jump off.